'Assigned at birth'. I would like to try to change the conversation. Any scientifically literate people willing to take a look?

[Annandale]

The phrase 'assigned at birth' referring to sex is becoming more frequent. The government-published consultation document for the changes to the Gender Recognition Act has the following definition for sex: that it is defined by medical practitioners at birth. This is part of the explanatory glossary for the document, not one of the questions for the consultation.

I think this definition is actively wrong. Biological sex either male or female is observable in the vast majority of cases from the external genitals, either at birth or frequently from an ultrasound image of a foetus's developing genitals in the womb. Many parents now chose to have antenatal chromasomal testing for a variety of reasons, which can include accurate information on biological sex early in human gestation.

I think it is very important that definitions of words in a government document are accurate and complete. 'Assigned female/male at birth' is becoming a more commonly used phrase but does not relate to reality. It has been used in the past in relation to a small number of cases where a baby was born with a disorder of sexual development, befote chromosomal testing was widely available. It is not appropriate or accurate to use it about children born in the UK in modern times.

I want to write to my MP and ask for a vote in the House of Commons about the use of this specific definition in government documents and statements. I'm happy to use my own words, but can anyone tell me if anything in this statement is factually wrong? I obviously want to encourage accuracy, not perpetuate further lies.

I am (was) a scientist
I think you will find ‘observable characteristics’ common scientific parlance.

I think you will find that there are different ways to clean your baby post birth given the genitals they present with.

Boys. Are their testicles dropped? Ensure the area is fully clean and never attempt to pull back the foreskin.

Girls. Wipe front to back. Always.

Aspie that's a great point I might have to steal it! .
I hate the term, it's just used to twist meanings, I often wonder how many of the people who say this have actually witnessed a birth that was not their own.
It just seems so at odds with what actually happens during labour.

defined by medical practitioners at birth

Damn. DH was born at home without a medical practitioner present.

Lucky the non-medical members of the public present guessed the right sex, isn't it?

placemats

Also, duck when changing a boy's nappy. Lordy they do like to pee in your eye

MIL had a charming anecdote about a perfect arc ending in the GPs open medical bag.

Yes, funny the aim is spot on when they are babies. Son's dad, my exh, got it in the mouth.

Yes, funny the aim is spot on when they are babies.

A skill they sadly lose as they get older...

Even the term ,biologically female‘ irks me. What other kind of female is there ffs?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/17/labour-calls-for-ban-on-early-foetus-gender-test

So at 9-10 weeks of pregnancy, the sex of the foetus can be determined. No one assigns sex (or gender if you're illiterate) at birth - they observe what the 9-10 week blood test shows. So there is no ooh we don't know what kind of chromosomes or oooh we're more than a binary.

NO. We are a sexually dimorphic species and we can determine whether a baby will be a girl or a boy when they are a tiny foetus the size of your big toe! There is no assignation by evil doctors

Oh yes Aspie

Whenever I hear the tern 'assigned at birth' I get a vision of a doctor skipping up and down the maternity ward like the Easter bunny scattering blue and pink glitter with gay abandon

Yes I hate the term 'biologically female' too.

It makes me want to shout:

I'm female. Get over it!

For my children, their sex was observed at birth for the first and at the scan for the second. No other testing or assigning has been done as far as I am aware (assuming there are no routine chromosome checks I don't know about?). For child number one, the midwife lifted the baby up and showed DH who said "it's a boy". That is how his sex was observed. I assume this is normal and therefore sex isn't assigned, it is observed. I can see no reason not to use that wording?

Incidentally, my work place survey asked if I currently identified with the gender I was assigned at birth. Answers were yes no and prefer not to say. I went with the later.

I would maybe use the phrase ‘genetic testing’ rather than chromosomal testing, yes, you are correct.

If the sex is not totally apparent (and to be clear this happens VERY rarely, most intersex conditions have an obvious physical sex to be observed) there is a mechanism for delaying reporting of sex until the appropriate testing has been completed (ie you get more time to register the birth.)

There are no babies that I’m aware of being ‘assigned a sex’ in the UK in 2018.

Even the term ,biologically female‘ irks me. What other kind of female is there ffs?

Alas I’ve had to use this term, along with ‘natal female’ to avoid falling foul of the regulations which disallow mention of what sex someone was born 🤦🏻‍♀️ I feel like I’m being forced to use apostrophes incorrectly or drop litter ... its so wrong.

Humans are a sexually dimorphic species. Most people are obviously either male or female, and most of us can tell at a glance what sex someone is most of the time.
A minority of people are intersex, and their sex cannot be easily observed at birth. In their case, a sex is assigned to them until genetic testing can determine their sex.

My Db was born at home (planned). I was aged three, and one of my most vivid memories is of being called in to the downstairs living-room where my dm was recovering, and the very forthright midwife pointing out to me - literally pointing, at the area concerned - that my newborn db's genitals were different to mine because he was a little boy.

That was a very long time ago and I often wonder what that midwife would make of the utter, utter insanity that prevails nowadays. She'd be frothing at the mouth, to put it mildly.

The expression "assigned at birth" is very out of date. If a baby's genitals are ambiguous these days doctors don't have to assign a sex as they did in the past, though I suppose it still happens in very poor countries.

It fits in beautifully with the concept that some kind of nefarious system is wrongly "assigning" sex and further indulges a victim status for TRA. Otherwise, you know, how can you show that you really are "stunning and brave"?

Child with XX chromosomes or Child with XY chromosomes would suit me. CWXX or CWXY

We really need people from the field of human biology or medicine to be writing about this in the public domain - new scientist, newspapers and news sites, blogs. Individuals on twitter are trying to defend the concept of human dimorphism against 'sex is a specyrum' etc. but we need the royal colleges and respected people in the relevant fields to do it.

I feel like I’m being forced to use apostrophes incorrectly or drop litter ... its so wrong.

It is nuts.

It vexes me so intensely, I think if I had the money of the translobby to spend, I'd pay for universal karyotyping at birth only so I could rub it in all the TRAs' and subservient legislators' faces that all those babies' sexes were determined at birth.

Yy lancelottie. I was born with just my mother and grandmother present at home. Therefore according to the GRA consultation definition, i don't have a sex. Hence why this is one of the few things in the trans 'debate' i am certain of - 'assugned at birth' is wrong. State-sponsored documents should be accurate and factual if nothing else.

I couldn’t agree more.
If a baby is born with no midwife, as happened to a friend of mine, no official person there to “assign” or observe , the sex of the child doesn’t then become some indeterminate thing, waiting for an official pronouncement. If this baby is female then it will grow into a girl, and then a woman, even on a desert island with no official statement of anything. My friend could see her baby was a boy. She didn’t sit there wondering until the midwife finally arrived....