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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Inquiry into surge in gender treatment ordered by Penny Mordaunt

37 replies

wheretoevenbegin · 16/09/2018 02:49

I really hope this is the good news it appears to be.

It's obvious to anyone who knows teenage girls that transing is this decade's self harm.

The TRAs are going to be livid!

Has anyone got a share token?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inquiry-into-surge-in-gender-treatment-ordered-by-penny-mordaunt-b2ftz9hfn

OP posts:
Jarveau · 16/09/2018 21:49

I share the scepticism. My first thought when I saw it was Mordaunt was "What's she up to now?" And is the starting point for this enquiry to be "transboys are boys"? Is she being pressured to grab more funding for "gender" treatment? The resulting coverage is a good thing if it gets people talking who haven't yet had much cause to hear or think about this, but I doubt the motives are anything other than mired in the ambitions of the trans lobby.

ChattyLion · 17/09/2018 00:50

I think we’ve always got reason to be cautious of the outcomes of this exercise of course, and I don’t know the extent to which they will be taking an appropriate range of views, and of course the usual suspects will make their case-
But:

the fact that the scope of this thing is looking at girls only, ie female children (while we are pre self ID and pre extension of GRC to children as the TRA lobby might wish-)

This is really good that there is an exclusive drawing up of the scope to females.

This does give the opportunity- and whether or not it is taken by government remains to be seen- for all the obvious points to be made about the current pornified and gender-rigid, social media- saturated social context for all girls and young women.

It gives the opportunity for the government to observe the radical asymmetry of the drivers and costs for transition for male and female people against a backdrop of deeply ingrained cultural misogyny.

If it was looking at ‘children and young people in general’ then the gender critical concerns could still be put, but the unique burdens affecting girls and women of this phenomenon would be less prominent. There might be more of an ‘even handed’ Hmm approach taken to the drivers between the sexes which would more easily mask why young girls are in droves presenting for help with this issue, whereas young boys relatively are not.

And absolutely agree with PP they should not ignore the girls self medicating off the internet as the TRA lobby and some sections of the media do. NHS stats are by no means the only measure. And they should look at all young people coming into these services- so include young adults over 18 also.

Personally I would be happy to see a conclusion of this investigation that more psychological support should be provided to these girls and young women and that a watchful waiting type of approach should be put in place.

Providing ‘affirmation’ medically or surgically without extensive prior therapy over time is clearly dangerous. But social contagion and ROGD is a thing, and for some time it would seem likely that demand will continue to rise for these services. At the moment detransioned people are still being marginalised and research into their experiences is reported to be being suppressed.

But that isn’t sustainable over the long term as unfortunately the more children and young people who take the medical and surgical route, the correspondingly greater the numbers of detransitioning people will be, and the greater the numbers of young people for whom the steps of medical and surgical transition that they have taken have not relieved their dysphoria or anxiety or mental health issues or who find medical and surgical changes made have brought in a whole set of new, permanent problems for them. Sad

Government and public sector in general needs to look at it now because as we know from experiences in health, education and other sectors a lot of the public sector is currently being encouraged to do the work of the TRAs for them, either or both by adopting a rush to ‘affirm’ medically or surgically or mysteriously accepting a very dubious claim by the TRA lobby that normal safeguarding practice which should apply to EVERYONE is somehow ‘transphobic’ when applied to them.

So in the mean time, whether this government exercise is well intentioned or not, let’s try to expose this whole thing to as much sunlight as possible and try to get the facts into the open as far as we can.

Not least about how if normal women and parents try to ask the simple questions that Mordaunt and the government are asking we get threats and intimidation and doxxing and punched to the floor at Speakers’ Corner.

Then it will be harder for the government to reach a santised, one-sided conclusion without that being glaringly obvious to a lot of people that that’s what has gone on.

Sorry that was long.

ChattyLion · 17/09/2018 01:16

Oh and also it might be worth asking Labour, Lib Dem and Green MPs to take careful note of this Tory-led initiative (which has been announced while the GRA consultation is still open), seeing as the other parties have done precisely fuck all to call to look into this phenomenon AFAIK and are more concerned with loudly parroting TWAW, giving away their female party positions and opportunities to men, and hunting down (female) gender critical party members, while suspending their normal probity and calibre standards for people who advise the party or who aspire to represent the party... and all that shameful load of utter shit that is discussed all over FWR.

This is only a small potential glimmer of hope from the Tories (and believe me I am beyond grudging in praising the Tories for anything given their record in other areas) but this is more than the other parties have indicated even any vague wish to do.

I think that point - the total and wilful inertia that the parties have all had on this issue in the face of being repeatedly alerted to them by female constituents- should be registered by the other parties now the Tories have broken rank.

Women voters across the political spectrum have urgent concerns about self-ID, the rush to ‘affirmation’ and the binning of essential safeguarding norms.

These concerns are currently being ignored by the major parties and in future as more of us catch on to the serious ramifications of issue for ourselves, our kids, friends, elderly parents, colleagues etc etc, you can be sure we are going to be acting on these concerns at the ballot box.

So the other parties might want to take note very carefully of the what the signal is that the Tories are trying to send here.

Women will obviously need to make their own minds up about how meaningfully the Tories actually do act on this signal that they are giving, but I think nonetheless while we are starting from such a very low bar of fear, misogyny, and party political inertia, the significance that the government are now doing something to look into this should not be underestimated.

ChattyLion · 17/09/2018 01:18
womanformallyknownaswoman · 17/09/2018 01:52

At the moment detransioned people are still being marginalised and research into their experiences is reported to be being suppressed.

But that isn’t sustainable over the long term as unfortunately the more children and young people who take the medical and surgical route, the correspondingly greater the numbers of detransitioning people will be, and the greater the numbers of young people for whom the steps of medical and surgical transition that they have taken have not relieved their dysphoria or anxiety or mental health issues or who find medical and surgical changes made have brought in a whole set of new, permanent problems for them. sad

YY - it's always curious to me how changes in policy and approaches are implemented unintelligently irl - in other words, new products and services are introduced with no proper pilot/ evaluation. The detransistioners should be invited to consult with policymakers and listened to for their lived experience, not those who advocate for these widespread changes, who have vested interests in their being rolled out.

The detransistioners are targeted and silenced by those who don't want their experience listened to - I recall there's a group on Reddit I think - the only place they can find to talk safely. The TRAs go for their jugular to silence them as they talk about how they were subjected to undue influence in their decision making, whilst vulnerable. They highlight the cultlike nature of the TRAs. There is a lot of wisdom to be learned from them. I recall that researcher at bath who had his research into detransistioners declined - he appealed but unsure what happened?

PencilsInSpace · 17/09/2018 02:18

There were 300+ comments on the Times article earlier. There are now 87.

Someone is exerting extreme pressure.

SPOFS · 17/09/2018 04:38

The trans boom will cost the NHS billions, if not trillions. If someone sensible in government has worked this out, then the brakes will be applied.

The other theory is that this has been pushed forward with the intention of destroying the NHS, which can then be blamed on "feminists" and "the left" by the Tories.

CrackpotsArePots · 17/09/2018 05:16

Now we just need them to stop using the ridiculous phrase 'assigned at birth'

nopeni · 17/09/2018 06:10

Sorry, I'm one of the less hopeful ones too.

It depends entirely on who's doing the enquiry and if they bother asking anyone except Stonewall and Mermaids.

The government has been complicit in this so far, why would it stop it all now?

deepwatersolo · 17/09/2018 08:17

It depends entirely on who's doing the enquiry and if they bother asking anyone except Stonewall and Mermaids. The government has been complicit in this so far, why would it stop it all now?

I am confident the government will manage to do the whole enquiry without asking a single detransitioned woman. Heck, I won't put it past them to be ambitious enough that they'll go for an enquiry that does not involve any woman at all! I mean, the bias of women on this issue could ruin the whole enquiry, right?

womensvoicesmatter · 17/09/2018 09:30

Nic Williams from Fair Play for Women on the radio talking about this right now:

talkradio.co.uk/radioplayer/live/talkradio.html

GColdtimer · 17/09/2018 10:08

Chatty I hear you.

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