How would you have dealt with this?

[poopsqueak]

I feel like I totally copped out because I was shocked.

Meeting at work with two guys and another woman.

In the space of an hour one of the guys said 2 things.

One was in response to exposing some data to clients 'oh I hope some woman exposes herself to me tonight' (he was going on a stag do with the other guy in the room). Thought to myself 'eww' but didn't say anything.

The second comment was worse. He was laughing with the other guy and then he said tonight was about 'fucking bitches and getting money'. I must have had my mouth gawping because he then muttered that he was only joking.

Then the meeting ended and my chance to say anything about it went. I spoke to my female colleague about it and she said she would complain except his manager is someone she has already had to complain to after she was sexually harassed by another of his team (he followed her home on a night out and kept trying to get near her) so she thinks it will paint her as a serial complainer.

It's shit. And I feel like I fucked up my chance to say something right there and then.

Spoke to my partner about it and he thinks i should have tried to humiliate the guy by pointing out that he's a 40odd year old bald guy with eyes too close together. But that's just not me and I think it would have made it worse. What do you think?

I don't understand why you can't complain in writing to his manager?

I've dealt with inappropriate sexist comments by men before by saying immediately "That's sexist and offensive."

Complain in writing to his manager.

It's scary tackling this stuff in-person or afterwards.

How do you feel about writing to the manager?

You also haven't run out of time on tackling them in person, but you'd need to stay calm and feel confident doing it.

What a complete plonker. Hope you feel able to complain in writing to the manager but if you don't feel strong enough to do so I'd let this one go and ready yourself for the next time it happens (whether with this bloke or someone else). Decide what you'll say, and maybe practice it at home so that the words come easily even when your brain is struggling to accept the fact that some men behave in this way.

His manager is quite 'laddy' himself and while he dealt with the other guy swiftly and appropriately (he got fired) I feel like this one is too valuable to him to discipline.

I also have to work with him closely from now on as he's one of a particular discipline at work and there is literally no one else who can do his job. So there's this as an awkwardness.

I just feel I can't win. We are a small (mainly male) tech firm and I think it would get round the team and I would feel very awkward.

That sucks.

During studies and after (in a rather male dominated field) I have made it a habit to say in such cases „now, that is definitely more information/insight than I had hoped for.“ and if some „arguing/justification“ follows a handwaving ending the debate type of „just don‘t.“ that’s so generally applicable that it is always ready.

What has also worked for me in such cases after the fact is waiting for next time you are asked to work together / have lunch in a group... : ‚yeah, sure i‘ll Join. But, Tom, this time please spare me the talk of bitches and fucking and stuff or whatever else you consider your love life. it is really just annoying‘ in front of coworkers.

But this is very much dependent on one‘s working culture. (Formal complaints for ‚loose language’ would rather harm than help me in mine).

I don't really see offensive comments as something to complain about unless they are part of a larger problem like bullying. It's a bit snowflakey for my liking. I would either opt for a sarcastic comment (didn't your mother ever teach you not to speak that way in public? Thank you for sharing you deeply intellectual thoughts with everyone Barry.) or a Wtf face. You clearly made him feel uncomfortable so I would say you did just fine.

It's not snowflakey to try and address outright sexism that makes you feel uncomfortable at work

In a male dominated field it may be construed as snowflakery (not saying it is right) if you file a complaint over such language instead of striking back directly.

In my experience other male coworkers are often embarrassed and will try hard not to be officially associated with this type of stuff - so they‘ll try to shut him up, too. Complaints are more hushed up and he can spin it.

It's not about "offensive comments" though really is it?

It's about a derogatory remark on how he views women, his attitude towards women and it's unprofessional.

It wouldn't be acceptable to make racist remarks at work.

If he does it in front of you again say " wow, 2018 now, you know you get sacked for less than that don't you ?"! Watch his face go grey

I don't really see offensive comments as something to complain about unless they are part of a larger problem like bullying. It's a bit snowflakey for my liking

I have very little time for snow flakery or women who go out of their way to find something/anything to complain about sexism. This incident is neither and deserves to be referred to HR.

It is unacceptable in a workplace to use language like "fucking bitches".

True, Flower. Problem is that there is a good chance one has to make this case to a boss who may think to himself ,hey, i may have used this vocabulary too, this could be me! this bitch will not kill my brother‘s career over some loose remarks!‘

What Deepwater says is true.

It's a real insight into how men's brains work. They may be the most lovely person in the world but once agreed with 'fucking bitches'.

I used to be the 'cool girl' (though I never did anal - it simply wasn't happening).

Personally I would have given them both the eyebrow and then brought in cakes the next day, to make sure the two got the crumbs.

I'm not great at confrontations. That's a lie. I'm dreadful at them.

But you don't need a confrontation. You just need a (fairly) immediate response. Men are often pretty direct when they react to each other - they just blurt stuff - and if you react bluntly too I've found it works better than I'd have expected.

When a bloke recently said something really horrible I just said loudly "That's gross. It's revolting" and screwed up my face. In the past I'd have been more polite, more diffident but I've been talking to myself this last couple of years. I bit back and embarrassed him, which was good.

Sorry, meant to say I don't think you fucked up at all, OP. I get why you're reluctant to complain. But if you're going to be seeing this man in future, which you are, I'd recommend you come up with a range of suitable comebacks and maybe practice them a bit.

Then prepare to get the nasty little weasel.

A lot of men these days (most?) a) don't know what's sexist and b) get quite worried about being told they are/ their actions are sexist especially in the work place.

I know it's really daunting to do so but a carefully and assertively written letter really should be written.

About 10 years ago a neighbour went through hell after calling out this sort of behaviour and then was bullied over the complaint (which then obs was taken further). Really not nice but I would really hope that the whole metoo stuff could have drawn more attention to this. HR should certainly take it seriously.