Making room to say, "I was wrong"

[PersistenceIsNotFutile]

This idea isn't fully formed, so maybe others can help me.

I am seeing a lot of comments along the lines of "we won't forget you threw women under the bus" or "you're a failure for not seeing this in advance" and so on.

Doesn't this push people into a corner, without giving them room to change their minds? I've seen many people in my life, when pushed hard enough, utterly refuse to engage and admit when they made a wrong choice. They just double down, and never change, even when presented with reams of evidence that they made the wrong choice.

Don't we want our politicians to have that space to say they misjudged the situation, or listened to incorrect guidance?

And now I've lost my train of thought...

I think a warning that a betrayal won't be forgotten is absolutely fair and right.

This is high-stakes stuff, and I will tell the truth even when an entire culture around me is manipulating everything to get their way. Everyone understands the idea of repenting for your sins. Some people choose to dig their heels in, like Judas, some people crawl back humbly like Peter.

I've never been more sure that people can only be manoeuvred so far - the more the TRAs manipulate and coerce, the more people begin to feel that something isn't right. What they do then is their choice, but I won't offer absolution until contrition is shown.

Betraying women is serious. If they don't know that, they will quite happily jump on the next passing vehicle that smashes our rights to pieces again.

I think leaving a space for people to say sorry is rooted in female social conditioning tbh. People are changing their minds all the time and being welcomed.
I feel the firm comments are towards people who know and see the consequences for women but for reasons of funding, political expediency or 'woke' points are happily ignoring them. As a PP said, their apologies won't be sincere. We won't need to pretend we believe them when they have their 'epiphanies'. Actually imo it's about having healthy boundaries and not allowing them to gaslight.

I'm convinced that many Labour MPs are staying silent on this because they fear de-selection under the Momentum-Corbyn axis.

I won't forgive them for their fucking cowardice.

There was a thread recently where someone openly said she said she was pan sexual (I think), because she wanted other people to know how accepting she was of them. Bisexual was too exclusionary.

For fucking fucks sake. If you are now (effectively) pre-apologising for your innate sexuality and ensuring it meets the thought police's currently acceptable level, there's not really any going back from there is there? People like that don't want wriggle room, they just want to be seen to be right, right now.

There was a thread recently where someone openly said she said she was pan sexual (I think), because she wanted other people to know how accepting she was of them. Bisexual was too exclusionary

I got told this in a training session - bisexual was problematic because it assumed that sex was a binary. By 'got told' I mean 'told to believe'.

I think leaving a space for people to say sorry is rooted in female social conditioning tbh.

Yep. Come to me with an apology in good faith and I will consider it. I have absolutely no intention of prostrating myself with prodigal son advance offers, however.

What jelly said, basically,

When it comes to career politicians there are very few who appear to have real integrity. Public scrutiny and pressure is about all that keeps them honest(ish.)

It should be seen as a strength to be able to change your position in the light of better data.

Until they’re held accountable for the consequences it won’t change. I include anyone in a position of power/policy formation in that. This is why a review on the Karen white case is so important - everyone KNOWS it’s madness to put males in a women’s jail. They know it. But until the buck stops with the person or people who allowed it to happen, it will keep happening

i think some people are past the stage of giving a fuck what the handmaidens think and have actually been on the recieving end of actual TRA violence , threats, and doxxing etc and are genuinely angry that other women have chosen the side of men so vocally.

Others are still seeing it as theoretical and hoping to change minds

It should be seen as a strength to be able to change your position in the light of better data.

Right now the majority of their information comes from TRAs. If the people in our government, including the civil servants, lack the perception or imagination to understand the consequences, then they need to be presented with gender critical information. And because the TRAs have established the baseline, and because angry, forthright women are perceived as strident hysterics, we have to be extremely careful in the way we present our information and scrupulous in its accuracy. Without making it overwhelmingly tedious snd was unpalatable. TRAs have the advantage of the "don't be mean to poor us" appeal to the Woke. MPs want votes, so they follow herd opinion.

Plus, as has been made clear by several spouses of politicians, and by the reactions reported here of some MPs' astonishment and shock when the issues are explained to them, if constituents do not explain their concerns to their MPs, how are the MPs to know what is expected of them?

It's one thing to be conciliatory towards someone who is wavering on the issue, another for those who have been deliberately targeting GC women while revelling in the attention their misogynistic wokeness has brought them.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I'm leaning towards my initial musings to be female social conditioning, as well.

The harm that politicians cause - yes, they need to be held liable.

My feelings are that someone in authority who allows the GRA to be amended without thinking about it ought to be treated the same way we'd treat a pharmaceutical exec who allowed an untested drug onto the market. It's their bloody job to consider the consequences. This is different from some woke student who simply retweets TWAW just because their mates did.

My feelings are that someone in authority who allows the GRA to be amended without thinking about it ought to be treated the same way we'd treat a pharmaceutical exec who allowed an untested drug onto the market. It's their bloody job to consider the consequences. This is different from some woke student who simply retweets TWAW just because their mates did.

THIS! You keep coming up with the pithy and spot-on comments, don't you?

Could we persuade any lawyers on here to take a pro bono case for compensation against the Prison Service on behalf of those women prisoners who were assaulted by Karen White? Or even better, against the responsible government minister?
The publicity would be greatly beneficial in focusing minds on what we’ve been shouting about for all these months!

I am so glad this thread has taken a turn for the better!

Packing's suggestion of 'accepting legal liability' (for both politicians and public servants actively pushing this) is a really good thought.

I have particular contempt for those making money/career off the erosion of women's rights (and safeguarding for women/children). So unless their later sorry comes with donating their entire pay during the time they undermining women's rights, back to women's charities, I won't even consider the 'sorry'.

And what Floral said:
I think a warning that a betrayal won't be forgotten is absolutely fair and right. This is high-stakes stuff

Being expected to accept an apology from active wrong-doers, is akin to the patriarchy directive that we should 'forgive our abusers'. Forgiveness is for accidents, not for malicious intent. Eff that noise.

The reality here is that this juggernaut will only stop (and it will stop fast) when the law suits start coming.

It's unfortunately the same situation pretty much everywhere these days; things only change when someone sues.

I think it's important to realise that, generally, and I say this as someone whose family members are heavily involved in local governance at various levels, a lot of elected representatives do not really have the critical thinking skills required to do their role properly. That's why the media and a solid opposition are so important a feature of a democracy because they function, or should do, as an alert to government over issues that they have missed and what public feeling is about said issues.

But that whole mechanism has broken down. So really the only thing left is to force responsibility onto those who support certain policies and force them to accept liability.

I think there are some issues that are so serious that you simply cannot allow space for someone to express regret. But in taking that stand, you must ensure people are fully aware of the implications of the position they hold.

We need also to make room for transpeople to say "I was wrong". Or not even that, maybe just "I want to come back".

Some deliberately harm others, some deliberately harm nobody but themselves, some do both. Some unintentionally cause terrible anguish to their loved ones. They also need a way to detransition without being held back.