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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Visit to my MP (Plaid Cymru)

40 replies

PinaGrigio · 14/09/2018 15:31

As promised, I'm reporting back on my visit to my Plaid Cymru MP to ask about their position on self-ID as mentioned in this previous thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3349086-Plaid-Cymry-candidate-faces-disciplinary-for-stating-no-women-have-penises?pg=1

I only had 15 mins so I'd prepped beforehand to focus. It was me, DH (also concerned), my MP (male) and his assistant/caseworker (female). It was a really good chat, and we overran our slot as we were so busy talking about the issues.

My MP wasn't particularly well up on the details, as he has a different portfolio. However, his wife is GC, and so he was already concerned about the implications for women's rights and the encroachment on sex-segregated spaces presented by the proposals. My key points to him focused on:

  • the safeguarding issues posed by self-ID and how it was going to be possible in future to distinguish between a predator exploiting the opportunity and someone with gender dysphoria ('Schroedinger's transperson' was the phrase I used)
  • implications for service provision in schools, healthcare, prisons, services to the elderly, women's sport, leisure facilities
  • implications for data monitoring, such as equal pay, and service planning, such as screening
  • the somewhat dubious background of the key proponents of self-ID (Bradley, Challenor, Lord, Fae, and others) and what possible reason such individuals might have for wanting to reduce safeguarding around women's spaces
  • the impact on groups such as observant Muslim and Jewish women and their access to services if self-ID goes through
  • the fact that all the concerns raised so far by GC women about the possible dangers of self-ID are coming true (eg the stats on changing room assaults, plus Karen White et al in prisons)
  • finally (!) the number of politically homeless GC women in Wales who would probably vote PC if they got off the fence and made positive statements about the importance of women's rights and the dangers of self-ID. I also cited the Pink News survey where only 18% had been in favour. I also noted the case of Anne Greagsby and suggested he had a look at the Twitter comments/reaction, which were not reflecting well on PC. Interestingly, he has openly endorsed Adam Price in the Plaid leadership contest, not Leanne Wood, so I did point out that LW's statements on 'outdated biology' and the TWAW mantra were not helping the PC popularity levels amongst women voters.

He pretty much fell off his chair at the case of Pippa Bunce and her part-time 'identifying as a woman' and I also highlighted to him the LibDem comment about how Parliament could in future be 50% men and 50% self-ID'd women, ie men. DH had come with me which was v helpful because I was able to introduce him as 'my wife', despite the fact that DH was rocking a hefty set of sideburns and chin stubble....but it made the point quite effectively. And it is Man Friday, after all, so I was clearly a man.

So, it was a v positive conversation, but I'll be waiting to see if anything happens as a result before I make up my mind finally on who to vote for. He's promised to go and talk to Helen Mary Jones about the issue, and I also offered to speak to his colleague(s) if necessary, such as Liz Saville-Roberts, who's the Westminster PC women's lead (I think). I also suggested he speak to organisations such as WPUK and FairPlay for Women, and noted that David TC Davies (whom he knows) had done so. He asked about the Greens' position on this so I referred back to the Challenor debacle and the flak that Caroline Lucas was taking for agreeing to meet with WPUK. I did also note that a number of people, including Labour MPs, felt that they couldn't speak openly about their concerns on this because of the climate of fear and that as far as I could see, a lot of other MPs were in the same boat.

Apologies for the epic post, but we covered a lot of ground in a short time. Fingers crossed......

OP posts:
GenderApostate · 14/09/2018 15:35

Sounds very positive Smile

MnerXX · 14/09/2018 15:42

Sounds like a really useful meeting. Well done

PinaGrigio · 14/09/2018 15:43

Yes, I was really pleasantly surprised! As I say, I'll be interested to see what he actually does, but he was definitely not dismissive and could see the issues were 'real'. Certainly not 'woke'!

OP posts:
speakingwoman · 14/09/2018 15:45

Well done.

Is his wife ok with being described as gender critical? There are very few Plaid Cymru MPs.....

PinaGrigio · 14/09/2018 15:48

Sorry, should have made it clear - it's me describing his wife as GC. He didn't use that specific term but he said his wife had expressed her concerns to him about how self-ID could impact on women's hard fought for rights. [I'm not sure his wife is an MP, tbh, but happy to be corrected.]

OP posts:
Melamin · 14/09/2018 15:52

That looks like a really useful list. I had forgotten some of the things on it, there has been so much.

Man Friday well spent Wink - Hope you are going to put your feet up at the pub now.

PinaGrigio · 14/09/2018 15:57

Man Friday well spent wink - Hope you are going to put your feet up at the pub now.

Yup, went to the bookies on the way back and spent an hour in the shed, so will have a manly pint and just be...manly now for the rest of the day.

This man-stuff is very hard work, you know. I can completely see why they get paid more

OP posts:
RoxytheRexy · 14/09/2018 15:58

That’s very good. I’m a Labour member but would support Plaid if they made a GC statement (Cardiff North constitution)

Plaid also have an openly GC AM in the amazing Helen Mary Jones

boatyardblues · 14/09/2018 16:12

That sounds like an excellent meeting.

Theswaggyotter · 14/09/2018 16:31

Well done pina sounds hopeful.
I’ve met with my MSP before and it all came to nothing (unsurprisingly as SNP) and I emailed her again at start of week but she hasn’t even acknowledged my email! It was about Karen White / David Challenor

VickyEadie · 14/09/2018 16:33

I've had a good letter back from my (Tory) MP, who clearly read my letter to him properly and said he was writing to Mordaunt to raise the issues with her.

howonearthdidwegethere · 14/09/2018 16:42

Fabulous! Well done.

We all need to do this. I've seen MSPs and have been heartened by the reaction I've had so far.

LangCleg · 14/09/2018 16:44

This sounds highly productive, OP. Brilliant and well done for all the work that must have gone in to prepare.

I feel this may be the time to bug my MP yet again.

Stickerladiesoftheworldunite · 14/09/2018 16:48

Well done, that all sounds very positive.

We must now all update our MPs with the fact that the Speaker of the House, John BerKcow is actively silencing debate due to his vested interest in a trans lobby group.

ImPreCis · 14/09/2018 17:14

Damn, I am, of course, pleased that it went well, but I know I need to speak to my MP, and I am running out of excuses not to do so.
I am in a staunch Tory constituency, a safe seat with a majority of what might as well be billions. A female MP already promoted well above her capabilities, photo opportunities dictate her schedule.
I am sure that she is not going to be interested nor will she be prepared to step out of line for fear of set back to her shimmey up the promotional ladder.
Here goes, I am going to make an appointment......

theOtherPamAyres · 14/09/2018 17:26

Thank you for the checklist !

I'll use it at my own meeting later this month.

ImPreCis · 14/09/2018 17:27

Ah well, that went well (Not). First available appointment listed is June 18.....surgeries held monthly apparently.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 14/09/2018 17:28

Congrats on successful consciousness raising

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 14/09/2018 17:34

Sounds like a really productive meeting, PinaGrigio. Well done! Star

I will copy some of your points if I get round to seeing my own MP. Not in Wales so slightly different.

I keep meaning to arrange a meeting but am worried I might waffle, so need to plan it all out.

I thought I might create an email with links in it before I go in, then at the close of the meeting tell her I'll send her an email providing evidence of all the points I've made. That would provide hard fact to support my claims. She might just accept what I say but if she has any doubts or wants to contact any colleagues, she'll have it all to hand.

PinaGrigio · 14/09/2018 17:55

Thank you everyone for your kind words. Must admit I was very, very nervous before we went in, hence having notes so I didn't burble.

But also a massive THANK YOU to posters here because having this GC resource in FWR made the task of organising my thoughts and data/stats much, much easier. There had been a previous thread about how to approach meeting your MP which I found particularly helpful just in terms of what would be useful to them.

Prawn I promised to email him as a follow-up so will also be including links etc in an email. I had listed the key stats on paper (such as the PN survey stat) so I had them to hand and I'd definitely recommend it. Roxy, would you mind if I quote you generically in that email as an example of a voter PC could attract from Labour?

I also referred several times to my sources so he knew these were genuine data and from verifiable sources. Forgot to mention I signposted him as well towards Janice Turner, James Kirkup, and Andrew Gilligan, plus suggested he look at articles by transwomen with concerns about self-ID such as Kristina Harrison and Debbie Hayton.

Glad to hear others have had success with their MPs as well, though sorry to hear you were ignored, theswaggyotter. I am lucky in that I'm not working atm so had the time to go and meet my MP. I am not sure what reaction I'd have got if it had just been email - it's always easier to ignore people who aren't right in front of you.

I did use an analogy of how he would feel about English people moving to Wales (we're English btw), draping themselves in Welsh flags, putting on a Welsh accent and then telling him we knew better than him what Welshness was and how all references to Welsh people and specifically Welsh issues had to include and be centred around English people/England as to do otherwise would be English-phobic......I think he got the point Grin

OP posts:
TorchesTorches · 14/09/2018 18:40

Thanks for updating on this. I am a big lurker on these pages. Inspired by this, I just emailed my mp, giving a few paragraphs of background info i gained by reading up on these boards over the last few months, and asked for her stance (she is labour, but JC critical). will await response (if any....)

TorchesTorches · 14/09/2018 18:41

I meant Jeremy Corbyn critical above, for clarity!

OldCrone · 14/09/2018 19:03

Interestingly, he has openly endorsed Adam Price in the Plaid leadership contest, not Leanne Wood

Adam Price supported Leanne Wood's anti-woman statement
record.assembly.wales/StatementOfOpinion/102

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 14/09/2018 19:23

Well done OP. Sounds like his wife could be a mumsnetter Grin

Ereshkigal · 14/09/2018 19:26

Well done Pina! Sounds really productive.