Can we talk about why members of the cabinet are too scared to talk about self ID?

[GulagMilkMonitor]

This has been playing on mind for a few weeks but I squeezed a baby out of my vagina and forgot the details of who wrote the piece and when. After a bit of a search around I found it.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/27/victoria-atkins-deserves-praise-not-vilification-speaking-transgenderism/

This piece by James Kirkup, which is discussed here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348609-Kirkup-in-Telegraph-on-Victoria-Atkins

Has such an incredibly disturbing quote that every time I think about it, I am almost brought to tears.

“Last month, a Cabinet minister told me: “There are real issues here, and I’d like to speak about them, but frankly I’m scared to.”

A CABINET MINISTER.
Let that sink in.
A cabinet minister is too scared to even discuss this issue.
A cabinet minister is too scared to discuss the safety of women and girls.
TOO SCARED.

Now I’m not suggesting we try to work out who this is because frankly if they don’t feel safe - I get it. However I am angry with them, really bloody angry.
These are some of the most powerful people in the country and this is an incredibly important issue that they are refusing to speak up on.

The idea of self ID keeps me up at night, I am scared to talk about it because I’ll probably lose my job but I’m out there doing it. We are just normal women putting our necks on the line but members of the cabinet are too scared.

I can believe that cabinet members are afraid to speak out.
Have you ever had a rl conversation about it? If you move in woke circles it’s akin to saying paedophilia shouldn’t be illegal or homosexuality is wrong. My MP was welcoming, interested and would be immediately deselected if she publically offered the mildest support.

I find Theresa May an interesting politician. I know that I am in a minority, perhaps of one. DH finds her infuriating.

Not for nothing did Cameron and his crew apparently nickname her "the submarine". She survived for a very very long time as Home Secretary during difficult times (in charge of immigration in the hayday of Nigel Farage and ISIS) in a new social media age, whilst socially and generationally different from Cameron, Boris and pals. Yes catches were dropped, but the fact that none were career ending was a huge achievement. She was then the acceptable compromise candidate despite, unlike Thatcher, not having a heavyweight male supporter. And, so far, she has survived, despite holding in the biggest poison chalice of modern political times.

I am personally distrustful of the shiney saviours: Blair, Trump, Macron, Boris, Cameron, and oh-Jeremy Corbyn. I am not sure what May stands for. But I appreciate her style.

She will go submarine on this. There may be a few baby-step indicators from individuals within the Cambinet that the Kool-Aid is still in the fridge, and regular signaling from the Mail that self-ID is not acceptable to the masses. But no action - either way.

I lost all potential interest in May the minute she straight face announced that "transwomen are women and not mentally ill" or words to that effect.

Throwing half of Britain under the bus.

I remember an older feminist telling me how promising it was when Thatcher got in and the absolute horror that followed realising that she too didn't give a damn about women despite being one.

disorganised
Yes. That is why DH finds her infuriating. But I am pretty sure she wont DO anything until she is sure she is on firm ground. And on this issue there is so much smoke, mirrors and noise that you can't see the ground.

Throwing half of Britain under the bus.

That is exactly it.

The truth is that success in politics is all about how many people you can get to support you. As long as you can show that you appeal to a broad range of people, your party will support and promote you. If you lose the crowd, you’re toast. For women politicians in particular, they’ll have got where they are with a good deal of male patronage (because men still run the show in political parties). If they lose popular support, their patrons will abandon them and there will be no way back.

The difficulty with speaking out on an emotive and divisive topic is that you risk not just losing a big chunk of your potential support, but that those who turn against you will take it very personally and the negativity will reach people who weren’t particularly engaged in the original issue. It’s very risky.

The political placing of this issue makes it more complicated. It’s very hard for Labour women to speak out because it appears to go against so much of the progressive politics they stand for. The atmosphere is so nasty in the Labour Party at the moment, and the treatment of their women so terrible, you can’t blame them for not speaking out.

The Conservatives are different, but are similarly terrified of not standing up for oppressed groups because of their past opposition to things like gay rights.

The one woman who is really there on her own terms and would be able to build a cross-party dialogue on this is Caroline Lucas. But, again, she relies for her support on a group of voters who are fully signed up to the TRA agenda.

It’s not that none of our politicians agree with the Mumsnet view. But they would e threatening the source of their power if they spoke out. You can deride them for being cowardly if you like, but the calculation will be that if they lose their seat, the Tories or Labour will win instead and that would be disastrous. Better to keep your mouth shut and keep the Tories in/ get them out.

I think I saw something where St Theresa had signed up to something about 10 years ago when she was doing W&E?

If so, she has been on the Kool-Aid for a long time. Still, politicians who want to survive are pragmatic (usually). It depends on whether her advisors are actually doing some proper thinking here.

Agree they are being silenced by their fear of falling off the gravy train, not any fear of public calumny.

Okay. It's not that they're scared so much as they're being PAID to ignore it, or, at the very least, not "rock the boat'.

A lot of people are hoping to make a lot of money out of fucking peoples lives up with this transgender movement. They're hoping to get life long patients who require surgery and hormones; that's a lot of moolah!

But don't these men have daughters, granddaughters, nieces ???

Simple: Self-interest, survival, career, lack of motivation.

1. There will be a leadership contest in the Tory party in the next 12 months.

Cabinet members are jockeying for position.

1. The Tory party is in danger of splitting.

They need to look after their individual interests and be on the winning side.

1. Brexit has sucked the life out the government -

behind the scenes, all govt business is being neglected.

1. The women's lobby is weak and the general public haven't been mobilised.

While lots of disparate women's organisations and individuals are having an impact, there is no leader, no financial backing and no airtime given by the likes of the BBC's Today programme

Any cabinet minister who is 'scared' to do the right thing, should recuse themselves from their position of power, lest they become a passive conduit through which the wrong thing is enacted.

There is no room for cowardice in those people we have elected to uphold justice and fairness. None. How much power does a person need before it is enough to be able to LEAD? A cabinet minister isn't powerful enough? Are they waiting for God to intervene?

We've forgotten what it is like to expect courage and leadership from the people who have promised to serve us.

Silent crow the David Davies who has spoken against self I'd (or at least for engaging with wpuk) is not the same one as the brexit dd. There are two Tory mps called David Davies! (More David's than women Mps?) This one is a smaller fish.

I really don't get how Tories are worried about not appearing woke on this. They don't try and look woke on other policy areas. Their voter and membership base will mostly think it's loony to allow anyone to change sex - and be treated as their new sex by law - just because they want to.

The fact that the only people campaigning against are doing so from a feminist position might mean the message isn't getting to those people.

Pamsterwheel - 'dont these men have daughters?' That must have been uttered many times by women trying to gain rights for women!

@Manderleyagain
The Brexit dude is called David Davis, without an e

I don't know if he has spoken up before but Lord Jones is pulling no punches & has a lot of followers:
twitter.com/Digbylj/status/1038511039120371714

I’ll bet the Tory party is stuffed with aging autogynephiliacs and cross dressers.

And the lords, across all parties.

I bet some of them tell themselves that TWAW because it means their predilection for trans porn can’t be internalised homophobia.

As for the women, well, have you’ve see all the die in a fire/kill terf stuff. Our MPs have no security protection outside of parliament, and Jo Cox was their colleague.

Another general election is brewing.
My MP thinks it might even happen before the end of the year.

Manderleyagain well, THAT makes a lot more sense - I couldn't figure out why he wasn't torn to shreds for it!

I think my main point still stands, though, Brexit has killed anything else for the foreseeable.

I really don't get how Tories are worried about not appearing woke on this. They don't try and look woke on other policy areas. Their voter and membership base will mostly think it's loony to allow anyone to change sex - and be treated as their new sex by law - just because they want to.

I don't think it's about seeming woke, I think it's fear of the transactivist lobby which, though small, is impressively well organized and well connected. If you become a target it can be devastating.

I agree with you that most of the general public will be outraged if Self-ID comes in. Only 13% of Tory voters agree with it, and I imagine there'll be an outcry if there are more Karen Whites, more Jess Bradleys.

We talk about it here and we mostly resent the new modding policy, but even before that we were very polite about it.

Men are not polite. I've already shared my DBs' perspective on S
men who identify as women in single sex spaces The word "pervert" was used twice in the first minute of our discussion (and it wasn't me who said it).

I'm hoping the consultation doesn't lead to a change in the law. But even if it's dropped, the changes in policy across the country will only be rescinded under pressure.

Oh, and many congratulations on the baby, GulagMilkMonitor.

To which gender have you coercively assigned it? Or did you toss a coin?

I don't know if he has spoken up before but Lord Jones is pulling no punches & has a lot of followers:
https://twitter.com/Digbylj/status/10385110391203717144*

Where are the rape threats, the insults, the die-in-fire responses? Amazing the difference when a man is openly GC compared to when a woman is.

I’ll bet the Tory party is stuffed with aging autogynephiliacs and cross dressers.

Ha. That's what the DH always says. And then, "But they're not as thick as the woke brigade so they keep it on the down low."

I have noticed DJ over the last week on twitter.

Silentcrow someone's pointed out one's called Davies the other Davis so we can tell them apart. I think you're right. I can't see legislation on this going through while brexit's ongoing.

Prawn. They don't seem frightened of lobbies for other social causes - it still seems strange to me. Maybe bettydumonde has it.

DH is an MP. Not saying which party.

He has not gone public with his views on trans issues. Main reasons:

1. he’s been contacted by 2 people about this so it’s not high on the agenda of his constituents. So why mention it publicly?
2. it’s not a piece of legislation currently being considered- this is the main reason.

It has nothing at all with fear, or money, or pressure groups, or being told by the party what to think, or ambition.

If there were proposed legislation, then yes, he’d start making his views clear. But there is no legislation planned, and I suspect that changes to GRC will be quietly kicked into the long grass.

They’re all too busy fighting about brexit and amongst themselves at the moment.

He’s GC.