'Our kids were raped by classmates. DfE won't listen'

[VickyEadie]

This is shocking. And demonstrates clearly that safeguarding is not deemed important.

www.tes.com/news/our-kids-were-raped-classmates-dfe-wont-listen

Good point about the problem of "reforming" sex offenders, Fermat's. I already knew about these figures, by the way, because one of the teacher bloggers I follow has been referring to them for quite a while now, as here:

twitter.com/oldandrewuk/status/1039921732197466114

I agree, the top priority should be keeping other children safe - but it's surprising how many 'educational experts' dodge away from agreeing with that. The idea that children do bad things purely due to "unmet special needs" is seriously problematic here, as well as unproven. And even if we were certain it was true, that doesn't mean ordinary schools would ever be capable of addressing those needs, or for that matter that anyone has the knowledge of how to address them.

Absolutely heartbreaking. Those poor girls and their families.

It's sickening and I'm in despair and outrage. I don't know what else to say or do to help. To ease the pain and make this go away.

The school's lack of concern and care is absolutely shocking and absolutely horrific.

I do think that for a primary aged child to do this suggests real and serious trauma in their own life - calling them 'brats' isn't helpful because it does nothing to actually tackle the issue. I know someone who works in a primary exclusion unit for children who can't be put in mainstream schools - they're nearly all violent and deeply unpleasant; she says that they also all come from heartbreaking backgrounds. She's been called a bitch, cunt and slag by a five year old - imagine what that kid sees and hears at home? However, units like this seem like the only way forward for such children - I think we can and should have empathy for them, but that must be accompanied with a recognition that other children should be protected from them. Empathy can't be extended to letting them hurt others.

It's no good saying "No Child Left Behind" when the reality is that girls are left behind, left traumatised by rape and sexual assault.

"No Child Left Behind"*

* Offer only applicable to boys

I haven't posted this on AIBU thread because I'm still thinking my way through it.

Do we have the resources or will to extend what happened in Norway when 2 boys killed a little girl?

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/mar/20/norway-town-forgave-child-killers

My feeling is no - and that is because the scale of the problem of sexual violence in schools is far more extensive than many people are prepared to acknowledge+. And there will always be those who are willing to minimise it. And we're not keeping up with the funding of statutory children's services as it is.

+While I'm at it, I wasn't involved any in mixed sports activities as a child that didn't involve sexual harassment, whether in school or outside it. I'm always surprised this isn't mentioned as a factor as to why so many girls/women give up sports as soon as they can.

The girls who have been victims of this are likely to need support from child mental health services, which are in a state of collapse. Please talk to your MPs and anyone else who might listen about this.

I was repeatedly raped at secondary school, and beaten up to the point of broken ribs, over years, by other schoolchildren. The school did not give a shit. Nobody did. Some of the perpetrators are now in prison on very long sentences, entirely unrelated to me. Most of them aren't. Nobody cares.

Undercover.

(Feels a new wave of rage at the posters on the AIBU thread who are all about the boys and how to turn their lives round.)

I can understand that there's maybe more to discuss when it comes to what to do with the perpetrators. There's a range of possible approaches from 'lock them up and throw away the key' to seeing them as being able to be 'fixed' with treatment and support.

It seems obvious to me that the victims need to be safe and receive appropriate support. I am astonished that anyone could disagree with this, and horrified that current policy means they are neither safe nor supported.

There are a lot of people out there - consultants, psychologists, teachers - promoting this idea. And a lot of pressure not to exclude such "vulnerable" children, including campaigns to make it much more difficult to exclude children permanently than it already is. References to the "school exclusion to prison pipeline" for example.

This reminds me of a longitudinal study about sexual violence among kids who sexually abused other kids (in the Banlieues, I believe). And the bottom line was 'Yeah, that is what some boys do who live under such precarious conditions, but the good news is, that 10 years later, these boys lead normal lives, no traces of what had happened 10 years prior.'

And I remember thinking, you know, actually, I don't want them to live normal lives 10 years later (sure as hell not giving a shit how the girls live 10 years later, just like the study authors).

for all of you affected.

This is truly shocking.

This article has honestly made me so upset.

Raped in year 2.

No words

deepwatersolo - I tried to identify the study via Scholar Google. I came across some cases that have shocked me to my core tho' I didn't identify the study you describe.

I say this as someone who grew literally a few houses away from brothels where families pimped their own under-age children. And, as upthread, accustomed to the presence of sexual violence among children and perpetrated inter-generationally.

My friend's DD was sexually assaulted by boys (plural) in her reception class.

The school did nothing and she's had to move schools.

Have name changed but this has happened recently at my kids school and in fairness the school couldn't have been more brilliant. It affected two of the three of my daughters friendship group and they weren't sure my daughter who has learning difficulties wasn't affected too so they did everything to support them and gently find out if dd was affected too. Thank God she wasn't. He certainly wasn't allowed back in the classroom.

I was sexually assaulted at secondary school. It was just accepted as the norm that you would have your backside or breasts grabbed. Nothing was ever done.

My daughter was urinated on in a school playground by a boy age five who pushed her to the ground and urinated on her. Nothing was done.

arranfan
I tried to find it myself, but wasn't successful either (I wanted to link it).
It may have been an article in SPIEGEL that referred to a study or thesis. If I find it, I'll post. It should be at least 7 years old. (It was about groups of teenage boys regularly dragging girls into the basement, if they didn't conform to certain dresscodes...)

My sister works with children, a couple of whom are quite obviously pimped out. And it is almost impossible to move the State (EU, not UK) to remove those kids from that situation. The State obviously doesn't care.

My first rape was by my friend during lunch time at school. I told no one. But he did and I was laughed at and called a slag. I was too shamed to say anything and certainly didn't trust my teachers to help me. This statistic does not surprise me.

It's not lost on me that MN is currently hosting a prize draw if we talk about online safety and cyberbullying with Kaspersky. But there seems to be negligible interest in real life sexual violence involving children's safety in schools.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sponsored_discussions/3355715-Let-s-talk-online-safety-and-cyberbullying-with-Kaspersky-300-voucher-to-be-won

It's not lost on me that MN is currently hosting a prize draw if we talk about online safety and cyberbullying with Kaspersky. But there seems to be negligible interest in real life sexual violence involving children's safety in schools.

I don't even have kids - and I'm staggered by this lack of interest.

It sounds as though it is an endemic issue and people are scared to address it...

arranfan

www.theguardian.com/world/2003/apr/05/france.gender

This is not the article. But it is the same topic, which was written about a lot at the time. I read a lot about that at the time. And I remember specifically there was some study that if you break up such juvenile gang rapists, they will somehow carry on as normal.

(I remember so vividly, because that triggered a memory: At age 8, 5-6 older boys from the neighbourhood dragged me and my friend into a basement, and started lifting my skirt... I was so scared. But said as firmly as I managed, that if they didn't let us go now, I'd tell my dad about it and there would be hell to pay. They let us go. And when I read about that study, more then twenty years later, only then, it dawned on me, what we might have escaped there. Those guys grew up into more or less valuable citicens (no one in prison). And I somehow thought, right, whatever they would have done to us, their lives would indeed not have been changed.).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3364595-To-be-cross-with-DDs-school-about-Distracting-the-boys-comment?messages=100&pg=1

Just wondering how long it will take for the boys self-appointed apologists to turn up on this thread about inappropriate comments from HOY to girls about the length of their skirts and the effect on boys.

It sounds as though it is an endemic issue and people are scared to address it...

^ Yes. Because it is^ systemic and deeply disturbing. We can't address toxic masculinity or the patriarchy. So what if we are sacrificing the mental health and sense of safety of girls and women that can be lifelong in its consequences.

deepwatersolo Those cases are horrendous. It made it all the more shocking to realise that there was action for a few weeks yet no meaningful improvement.

In the US, there is a Federal law known as the Clery Act that forces publicly-funded higher education establishments to publish annual reports of serious crimes, including sexual crimes, that happen on campus or near campus involving their students. We need a law like it here for our schools.

We can't address toxic masculinity or the patriarchy.

I know. Heaven forbid that we hold men and boys to account when they hurt women and girls.

Thanks for the consultation link.

The Cleary Act sounds good
The only problem I can see is the size of schools could make it easy to work out who is a victim. If you know x was off school after being attacked and you later see someone was raped in that period it's not hard to figure out.

Maybe publish school groups so primary schools in a small area (10 schools got example) so you get total numbers for all of them making it harder to identify victims. But LA should get individual reports. And automatic auctioning if some things happen so it doesn't get hushed up.