Women as the orchestrators of their own oppression

[facelessvongorgeous]

This comment of reddit typifies my issue with some transwomen's perception of what it is to be a women. In it, the poster expresses their uncertainty of how they identify because of "many women's casual acceptance of male servitude", and are therefore cannot be either male now female.

It's one of those so close yet so far moments - gen crits/rad fems are explicitly pushing back against male servitude and demonised for it, yet this person will be celebrated for being brave and stunning for not wanting to accept patriarchal norms.

One rule for them, one for the women.

Some typos in there! On reddit and male nor female.

It's early.

Depressing. 'Transition' is the right path but apparently 'perfection' is the goal of transition. Name a perfect adult, male or female - how much therapy is this person having? The person sounds like a man who doesn't enjoy or fit in with toxic masculinity. What a loss to positive adult malehood.

I agree, the poster recognises "patriarchy bad" but can't take the mental leap needed to do anything about it. Instead they are firmly rooted in the trans agenda and propping up reductive and damaging stereotypes.

yep, its that old story, blame the women.

It is quite ironic. The person seems to fully grasp that they are not a woman, but can't understand that it is socialization in patriarchy as well as biology that are the reasons. Instead they cling to the stereotypes created by patriarchy to make a distinction between them and women.

The person sounds very decent, though, and not invested in the casual degradation of women, TRA's seem to be so invested in, just ideologically on the wrong track. (Not saying they should not transition. Just saying they should read some Feminist Current to better understand their issues. Might be a light bulb moment.)

What a world. What people must he be surrounded by that he recognises toxic masculinity for what it is, enjoys feminine things, accepts that he can’t be the same as a women BUT still thinks that somehow they are wrong.
Is it easier to transition mtf than to stand up to other men?
They haven’t mentioned sexuality (and I can’t work reddit to read more) but I am beginning to wonder if it’s easier to square the circle of being attracted to women but also have some feminine qualities/leanings by being trans than adopting typical gay male stereotypes but not gay. Gay men are still men and upholders of the patriarchy.
If I’ve offended anyone I’m sorry, genuinely wasn’t my intention.

It's those people I feel would be vital to the debate, because there's potential for him to recognise that actually, what is going on is shit for women, yet still he blames them. It's like the Not Like Other Girls memes where there's a feeling of superiority for not putting up with patriarchal bullshit.

Yeah you’re right. If the debate went beyond people at either end screaming they were absolutely right and everyone else was absolutely wrong, and if it was an actual debate for everyone else rather than complete taboo to take a side, probably more people would realise the truth about gender roles. As in they are complete bullshit. Hmm I’ve got a lot to think about today.

Ermahgerd, right, I like sooo love tits and heels, but like, actual women are rubbish and stupid, get treated like shit and I don't fancy that part much, so I'm gonna be, like, a better version of a woman, right? Like tits and stuff, but like, more human, so people think I'm still as good as a bloke, and not yappy and shit? Yanno?

Narcissists really aren't 'essential to the debate'. And women's and girl's rights shouldn't be being debated anyway.

I strongly believe, the wider the stereotypical role of 'woman' is debated in society, the better. (The person talks about women's roles and not women's rights, here).

Also, autogynephilia (which I suppose the poster is), may often be linked to narcissism, but I doubt every autogynephile is a narcissist. In fact, some are great allies in calling out the TRA-madness, for example. Like Anne A. Lawrence, who wrote this article:

pfox.org/Shame-Rage.pdf

I don't see, why having a honest dialogue with autogynephiles about their motivations to transition and, by contrast, the reality of being a woman instead of leaving them to be indoctrinated by crazy TRAs, is a bad thing. I very much doubt we would be in this crazy madness, if people like Anne Lawrence lead transactivism instead of the current bunch of crazy.

I don’t think the poster is exactly blaming women. What the poster seems to be saying is the same as some posters have said about female “handmaidens” on here.

The poster is right. There are women who accept male servitude; many because they have been brought up to do so. I think this poster, and others like them, could do a lot of good for the feminist cause. There are strong transwomen who back feminists. This poster just needs to meet some of them

Is it easier to transition mtf than to stand up to other men?

Debbie Hayton said that they transitioned as their view is easier for them to be a mtf transsexual than to be a gender non conforming male.

which is really sad

I think being a GNC member of either sex is bloody tough. I reminded of Hannah Gadsby's story of being beaten up at a bus stop because she is a GNC woman - she was firmly of the opinion that if she had looked like she conformed to gender stereotypes, she wouldn't have been attacked.

"I want to be a woman but, like, a better version of, as real women are a bit shit. My testicles of objectivity allow me to see this clearly, unlike those attractive but stupid vagina people who understand nothing."

Barracker and AAK nailed it for me.