Is social media normalising the stalking and harassment of women?

[DJLippy]

I read a wonderful thread this morning from intersex campaigner Mrkhtake2 which listed an incident of abuse she received yesterday on Twitter.
twitter.com/mrkhtake2/status/1037238956402851840

In this debate one of the most concerning aspects is the doxxing and harassment that many women have experienced. One thing I learned from Mrkhtake2's thread is the sexed nature of such behaviour. According to the ONS harassment is listed under sexual offenses and violent crime. In the past 12 years, 92% of crimes of this nature were perpetrated by men. You can check the stats here
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/datasets/natureofcrimetablesviolence
This is most definitively male pattern abuse.

Now NHS doctors are using their platforms to harrass women on Twitter - seemingly without any kind of retribution from the platform. There is a concerted effort to doxx and harass Mumsnet Twitter users - you can see the Tweets here. There are also those who suggest that UK political parties have been involved - either directly or by failure to condone such behavior.

I am concerned that when this type of behaviour goes unchallenged - and when it's encouraged by those in authority, it is normalised.

Is there anything that can be done? Does anybody know where the law stands? I know that this crime is something which the police struggle to prosecute. I was shocked to learn that Newsnight anchor Emily Maitlis has been stalked for many years and continues to live in fear. He privilege fails to protect her from such abuse.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42725776

How are normal women, with no financial or social resources supposed to defend themselves?

I don't think that the authorities take this crime seriously and I don't think that social media giants like Facebook and Twitter do either. We share so much online these days that the potential for someone with ill intent to stalk and harass is immense.

This should become a major feminist issue. Thoughts?

Yes to it all - I agree. It is probably the biggest problem facing us - bigger than DV because it's so widespread - but nobody's really measuring the extent of the problem and certainly, nobody is taking any concerted action - lots of words but no follow through as traditional law enforcement doesn't translate to the net and the abusers know that.

Public cyberspace is unsafe for women generally and actually is like putting yourself in a harms way in a cesspit of psychopathy - like the wild west minus any law enforcement.

I was cyberstalked by a stranger for a few years for commenting about DV - there was zero support - I was told I was one of the thousands each week and we are all ignored.

The police downplay and ignore it - it crosses international boundaries mostly and thus there's no scrutiny of the male deviancy and abhorrent cruelty and sadism at play hence why it's on the increase - it really is lawless. We need female posses....

I've been stalked three times in my life, first time was most scary probably because I was a teenager with no clue how to protect myself. That's when I went to the police who were completely useless with a side order of victim blaming.

I'm very cautious as a result and managed to head off subsequent problems before they got too bad. But that caution restricts my life in untold ways.

It's one reason I NC on here regularly and although I'm on twitter it's on my real name so I follow so GC posters and do a lot of reporting I don't do anymore.

I don't know what we do about it, I think greater equality would help.. the stats surprised me, I think women stalking men must get reportedly more as I didn't realise they were so skewed to men stalking women online.

That thread you posted the link to, it's horrific.

I do think sm is a bad place to be a woman, I don't think the average woman can defend herself. Especially as, regardless of what some people would have us believe, it's not just random oddjobs who do this. It's supposedly respectable doctors, journalists, politicians ...
Infuriatingly, something that should have given a voice to everyone is being used to reinforce separate spheres for men and women, and not only are the people who could do something about it turning a blind eye, some of them are actively participating in the silencing of women.

Not only is public space male space, but so is cyber space. This is why they attack MN the way they do, because they see it as female space, and we use it in ways they don't approve of. Hence the regular influxes of male sealions on this part of the board especially, because how dare women have anything for themselves? And when we don't pipe down, we're then open to abuse.

Mrkhtake2 is excellent- calm, knowledgable and rational. That thread is horrific.

Yes I think SM exposes the level of harassment women experience. It’s one reason I’m not on Twitter - I can only imagine the level of hatred I’d get there from some of the replies I’ve had on here.

After the new guidelines, someone had gone through all my past posts under this name and reported uses of banned words - all before the new guidelines by the way, but they obviously thought that enough reports would get me banned. MNHQ were lovely about it when I pointed out that I was in fact adhering to the guidelines and the banned term was used before they came into force. But it shows you what an obsessional level reporting and Sm stalking/abuse reaches.

Four hundred years ago these people would have been burning witches. They aren’t offended, or hurt, they are actively looking for ways to inflict harm. And SM lets them.

Most platforms are misogynistic to the core as well - fb and Twitter.

In the past the private sphere belonged to women and the public sphere to men but now we have cyber space - which we take into our homes even this has gone. No female spaces allowed anywhere.

I loved coming here because even so called 'leftwing' online spaces like the Guardian comments section were filled with the most misogonistic male presence. Look at the comments section for any slightly feminist article prior to 2017 - they're abhorrent. Now they just disable all comments so there is NO discussion about feminist issues in the media. MN is a safe space where I can have really good discussions without getting that patronizing patriarchal pile on - now this is under threat. Maybe we should just disappear off of cyber space altogether?

I don't know about women, specifically, but it does happen. I hate social media. My adult son, a musician, has had a couple of online stalkers and he does his best to keep his stuff private. Thankfully his stalkers were not dangerous and he travels a lot, no-one except personal friends know where he lives when in UK.

FB is anathema to me, glad I do not partake.

And twitter is doing what about this blatant call-out for stalking/harassment? (Clue: fuck all)

After the new guidelines, someone had gone through all my past posts under this name and reported uses of banned words - all before the new guidelines by the way, but they obviously thought that enough reports would get me banned. MNHQ were lovely about it when I pointed out that I was in fact adhering to the guidelines and the banned term was used before they came into force. But it shows you what an obsessional level reporting and Sm stalking/abuse reaches

Wow Bowl that's some aggressive targeting - so pleased you are still here!

Is there a list of banned words?

Bloody hell, Bowl! The thing is, I have never seen a post of yours that was anything other than polite, rational, measured and incredibly informative. They are terrified of you because you are a professional scientist in a field with considerable relevance to the debate, and can therefore destroy pseudo science bollocks with ease. So they stalk you!

I'm not surprised they targeted you though, Bowl. Your use of actual science is way more dangerous than our opinions

That's awful Bowl
I do hope that MNHQ 'took action" against the person in line with their guidelines and that this person has been suspended and MNHQ no longer accepts complaints / twatter reports from them? In line with these guidelines:
We’ll also be taking a dim view of the continual and persistent reporting of posts that don’t break our guidelines, as each of these need to be investigated, which is a huge waste of the mod team's time and energy. Anyone who repeatedly reports similar types of posts that aren’t worthy of deletion – ie simply to be vexatious – will be suspended

Thank you all! I try to be as measured as I can be - I find IRL that if you’re calm when your opponent is raging that in itself works in your favour (also toddlers = patience boot camp.)

I think we are starting to get a clearer picture of who and how MNHQ is being put under pressure and it’s this very issue; obsessive malignant use of social media against women. I value MN as a unique place where women can speak, there is nowhere else like this anywhere and so, while I wouldn’t have wanted to censor anyone’s language or tone, I will comply with it because in the end it benefits us to be seen as the rational, objective, non abusive voice. in a way, the rules MNHQ have imposed have worked in our favour because they make us be squeaky clean and considered in what we say and how we say it. When someone contrasts that with torrents of twitter based abuse or blogs full of dodgy paraphilias, the contrast is very, very clear.

And as for WHAT I say,

science is impartial, objective and not bigoted. It shows us reality. Reality can be a hard place to live, but it’s reality all the same.

I’m not sure, tired. Obviously I didn’t ask who and nor would I have expected MNHQ to tell me, but I did just point out that the reporting of old posts indicated a dedicated attempt to ban, and might not be in good faith so they might want to take a look at it.
As I said, they were really good about it and rescinded the strike.

Excellent points Bowl and well done for managing it with such dignity.

I also value Mumsnet highly and recognise the pressure that MNHQ are under. However, given the evident maliciousness and misogyny of many of the attacks, I do hope that they are reviewing their policy of taking twatter complaints from 'strangers' as it allows the misogynists to repeatedly target individual women. Perhaps they could return to only accepting complaints / reports from members.

What Mrkhtake2 clearly lays out is the safeguarding holes at the core of self-ID and how they attract the highest risk people. It's all happening in plain sight and, such are the levels of societal misogyny, TPTB are getting away with deliberately refusing to notice.

Very upsetting to read about this targeted obsessive threatening behaviour, even on MN. I am so grateful for this platform and all the brave voices speaking up.

I would ditch the twitter reporting too - I think it’s opening themselves up for attack needlessly. If you want to complain about a post on a forum, you need to be a user of the forum.

Yes, this is the only place I know of where women can actually talk freely, and even here we're constantly under attack. I also hope MNHQ can hold out.

I do use SM, but FB is only family and friends, so updates about life and photos of children, pets, etc., nothing controversial. On Twitter I used to have to tweet for work, and that was difficult because even quite mundane and neutral things could lead to obnoxious abuse. Nowadays, I'm tweeting in a personal capacity but I do find myself self-censoring which makes me angry because I feel that I'm giving in to them.

DJLippy - you mentioned going offline. I was thinking a few days ago that may be the way forward, womens' groups meeting IRL. But then it occured to me that trying to meet up and talk with other women is now considered wrong, so even that route is fraught.

Agrees (yet again) with LangCleg .
In recent weeks the very safeguarding issues that women have been warning about have been exposed in political parties, a union, government advisers, sports, counselling organisations. Mrkhtake2's thread is a perfect example of the online harassment of a woman.
At some stage there must be a critical mass of evidence that will make politicians realise just who they have been dining with.

What Mrkhtake2 clearly lays out is the safeguarding holes at the core of self-ID and how they attract the highest risk people

Yes this. It was a brilliant demonstration.

I absolutely love Mrkhtake2's tweets. She's another one like Bowl who just sciences the fuck out of runs rings round them

I hope she's on here.

If you don't want to be stalked,harassed or receive offensive comments/messages on social media then don't use it, or at least use it better. Simple as that really, and no it isn't normalised to stalk or harrass women in any way and any normal upstanding person would agree.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

If you didn't send the pictures, he couldn't have posted them.

If you didn't wear that skirt, you wouldn't have got yourself raped.

Any more while you're here?