Straw poll: what kind of feminist are you

[thingymcthingyface]

Hello de-lurking after lots of reading this board- I hope this question isn't too badly worded!!!!

I have a little straw poll question- would you say as a feminist your beliefs fit definition A or B more closely

A) you believe men and women are or potentially are mostly the same / similar in their needs and desires, capabilities, and so should be treated equally,

Or

B) you believe men and women are fundamentally different in their needs and desires, capabilities, so should be protected while being treated equally?

Or neither or both?

(Sorry I'm not focusing on dismantling patriarchy aspects of definition) I'm hoping for some really complicated answers!

Basically the same idea, but I like the descriptions and the framing of the fence as a systematic barrier.

@paintedwingsandgiantrings can I ask you the same question as I asked pp about motherhood-
Do you think A was true until you became a mother, or do you think it was never true and motherhood made you see that for the first time (and May I ask which aspects? Was it your children's behaviour, or things that related to you?)

Sorry MORE QUESTIONS:

It's unanimous Bs, for those that have DCs, do you feel A or B is true for children? Before puberty?

Also sorry yes it's a badly worded question I guess but your answers are all fabulous so i guess it's ok!

Women, on the whole, are far more intelligent and suited to shape and lead our society. We don't get the chance to demonstrate that, nor to even get anywhere near proportional representation never mind leading, as the men in power actively withhold giving anything up of themselves (power) to assist us plus wage a relentless guerrilla war to try to weaken women (their perceived enemy) by attrition, with the aim of eventually forcing us to withdraw from the little ground gained over hundreds of years fighting for liberation from their coercive control that enslaves us.

An example of this is the present raid on our definition of our sex, or overturning abortion law or saying they support women whilst actively consigning many to poverty and disadvantage if they leave an abusive male, by withholding the support needed for independent living eg affordable housing and childcare plus reasonable financial support.

At the same time, they wage a war of weasly words by propaganda techniques through all the media outlets that they retain control of.

I don't like the premise of your questions as there are at least 2 categories of men, normal and militia. The militia are the ones that need fighting and driving off as they are very different in mentality from the rest of their peers, but are more in number than most realise.

How can you tell if a man is normal or militia?

Can we really be sure that we are the same mentally? As far as I can see that's a really hard thing to ascertain - one cannot change sex, therefore one can't ever wholly experience life from the pov of a different sex.

You can’t be sure you are the “same mentally” as any other female either though.

I am an old woman and so, like Andrea, I am a Radical Feminist, not the fun kind.

Men and women can't be treated equally because we have different needs and priorities.

We must be treated equitably.

It's no good giving equal job opportunities if women have barriers to employment with things like childcare issues, female only problems like endometriosis making us I'll during our cycle, etc.

Issues that affect our ability to access education, work and healthcare must be addressed first before we can be ever be on a level playing field.

Feminism helps us address those barriers that only affect female humans.

A person with typically poor eyesight is not considered handicapped anymore because we provide glasses and contact lenses on prescription at a young age. The problem of poor eyesight was addressed equitably so people with poor eyesight have no disadvantage.

So I am a radical feminist. Not the fun kind. I fight for the rights of women.

C. It shouldn't matter if we are different. Differences should be respected not exploited. All humans should be awarded the same status and worth in a civilised social system.

Patriarchy is an archaic abomination.

If we are all different throughout our sex then surely any grouping that divides by sex is unhelpful (see pps thoughts on men as militia...)

My understanding of intersectionality is that the process that would lead to equitable treatment needs to look at each individual as a whole, and so we can't just draw a male/female line? A disabled man needs more support than a thin white rich woman?

So with things like childcare support in the workplace, we should be offering the same amount of support to both sexes, so that men are also able to share equally?

I guess I fundamentally believe B is the case, but I worry that when you apply it it's problematic... hence the questioning....

(Also my life experience of men, from close to extended family, work colleagues (mostly men) DP etc is that the things they want and need in life are the same as the women I know, but yes they aren't penalised in the work place for having kids like women are...) but that's just men I know maybe I'm just lucky

Sorry rambling now

If we are all different throughout our sex then surely any grouping that divides by sex is unhelpful.

But biologically females are not very different from each other as opposed to how they are different from males.

The categories female and male are biological categories, nothing to do with desires or capabilities (other than physical capabilities).

So with things like childcare support in the workplace, we should be offering the same amount of support to both sexes, so that men are also able to share equally?

Absolutely.

But with regards to having children, females cannot avoid being the ones that have to carry a pregnancy and give birth and so need support in that case because biology.

I think up until puberty A, and personally I continued to believe A until life taught me otherwise.

Now firmly in the B camp.

Women are, in general, smaller and physically weaker than men. We live in a world that worships strength. I don't think many people realise the overwhelming scope and impact of that until they one day find themselves on the receiving end. For example, I used to believe that a woman being groped by a man was no different to a man being groped by a woman and that it was not a feminist issue, until it happened to me and I realised that, being smaller and weaker, I had no choice but to quietly put up with it.

Stop thinking in terms of a hierarchy, thats not how intersectionality works.

A 'thin rich white woman' may still suffer from period flooding and need a single sex toilet to clean up.
She is still at risk of having to manage a miscarriage.
She will risk becoming pregnant after a rape.
She is still at risk of domestic violence.
She is still less likely than an able bodied man to be promoted at work.

The intersections are still there even if you refuse to believe they exist.