The myth about lesbians and rates of domestic abuse

[PimmsnLemonade]

This has just come up in another thread and is a favourite of the TRAs/MRAs to deflect from male violence and to argue that female-only safe spaces don't matter because "you still let those awful abusive lesbians in".

This is the research from which they get their 'evidence' - www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181867.pdf It's on page 30 and there are two paragraphs to it, the second of which they never seem to have got round to reading:

The survey found that same-sex cohabitants reported significantly more intimate partner violence than did opposite-sex cohabitants. Among women, 39.2 percent of the same-sex cohabitants and 21.7 percent of the opposite sex cohabitants reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by a marital/cohabiting partner at some time in their lifetime. Among men, the comparable figures are 23.1 percent and 7.4 percent (exhibit 8).

At first glance, these findings suggest that both male and female same-sex couples experience more intimate partner violence than do opposite sex couples. However, a comparison of intimate partner victimization rates among same-sex and opposite-sex cohabitants by perpetrator gender produced some interesting findings: 30.4 percent of same-sex cohabiting women reported being victimized by a male partner, whereas 11.4 percent reported being victimized by a female partner. Thus, same-sex cohabiting women were nearly three times more likely to report being victimized by a male partner than by a female partner. Moreover, opposite-sex cohabiting women were nearly twice as likely to report being victimized by a male partner than were same-sex cohabiting women by a female partner(20.3 percent and 11.4 percent).

Of course, as more and more heterosexual males 'become' lesbians it will become increasingly difficult to disprove these statements as it will be reported and recorded as abuse committed by women against women.

Interesting thing statistics. The detail can tell a whole other story.

Someone quoted the "lesbian relationships most violent" at me on the Mixed Sex Scout Camp thread (as they were alluding to lesbians should not being allowed in female tents due to risks / voyeurism which I called lesbophobia). I was a bit blindsided by it tbh and had assumed it was because heterosexual violence was under reported, especially due tl perceived risks of DC being removed by SS, but this makes much more sense. Thank you.

"30.4 percent of same-sex cohabiting women reported being victimized by a male partner,"

I don't understand. What does this mean? Are 30.4% of lesbians victimised by their ex male partners?

So you don't want to rely on anecdotal evidence but you post twice to make sure we all know that some lesbians behave badly, eh?

That would appear to be the case Neolara.

Does anyone know how to search directly for a poster's history? I've always just done a standard search and seen what comes up but I'm not finding anything for AllDayBreakfast.

I'm just interested in the posting history of someone who comes on a thread which refutes the popular MRA/TRA "facts" about lesbians by reporting that anecdotally all the lesbians they have ever known have been aggressive, violent, sexual predators.

Those stats indicate that a lot of women who are currently in a lesbian relationship have previously been in an abusive heterosexual relationship Neolara, and that they are more likely to have had this experience than exclusively heterosexual women. If I were guessing I’d guess that this suggests that women who are even slightly bisexual and have terrible experience of relationships with men may be more likely to form relationships with women in future.

Pimms, it's pretty much as you'd expect.

I don't understand. What does this mean? Are 30.4% of lesbians victimised by their ex male partners?

The participants in the research were asked if they had ever been the victim of domestic abuse at any point in their lives. The research showed that, where women who were currently in same sex relationships had been victims of domestic abuse it was most likely to have been in a previous relationship with a man,

I don't understand. What does this mean? Are 30.4% of lesbians victimised by their ex male partners?

Me neither. I'm maybe just being thick but I found it a bit garbled.

AllDayBreakfast has been posting since mid August under that name and has a posting history.

All the lesbophobia on these boards depresses me. I’ve never really seen anything that could be called transphobia, but I’ve seen plenty of lesbophobia. Considering all the links HQ are going to to insure transpeople feel safe reading on here, I don’t see the same consideration being extended to people like me, and this is one of the nicer corners of the Internet.

Can people just start reporting it please? I used to be of the opinion that we should let it stand so people could see what’s being said, but it’s starting to become depressing, and on reflection, letting it stand gives the impression it’s alright, and it isn’t.

I've not broken any rules. I've just stated my personal experience and clearly noted that it is anecdotal.

Or is it customary on here that you only recount the truth if it fits the agenda? I got on well with both individuals and keep in touch with the housemate from time to time. I just saw the mention of same sex couples being violent and mentioned that my experience attests that it does happen on an individual basis.

I was also posting in the male violence thread earlier today about a male acquaintance I used to know who had hit four of his previous girlfriends. It's interesting that nobody took issue with that post...

I see this kind of thing all the time on here. Someone makes a statement and then links to a research study as evidence. If you click through to the research report, you find that the conclusions of the study are very different to what has been stated.

I don't know if this means the person posting has misunderstood what they are linking to or if they are assuming most people will not bother clicking through and reading the supposed evidence.

Participants in a survey about domestic violence were asked 'are you a lesbian'; obviously they are going to show high rates for lesbians suffering DV.

To find rates of DV amongst lesbians you would have to ask a significant sample of lesbians 'have you suffered from same sex DV'.

Thanks for posting about this. I've seen these kind of statements before which have set off my someone is "misinterpreting" radar but have never been able to pin down a source so I assess it.

I also agree with the post about using sources where the source doesn't actually say what is claimed.

I'm pretty pedantic about checking sources for work reasons but for personal research I'm a bit more lax and just do the occasional spot check. It really infuriates me that when researching "trans gender issues" I'm having to follow up every bloody thing as far too many misrepresentations are being made.

place marking

Also sorry to be off topic but another strategy I've seen employed a lot is where a source is disparaged due to a single "weakness" in the source material.

However, when you read the source material you often find that this "weakness" is acknowledged, the authors state how they have tried to ameliorate the weakness and quite often there is other supporting material so the "weakness" isn't the sole proof of the argument.

It often seems to be employed as a tactic to discourage others from reading the source material as "it obviously isn't valid due to xyz reason"

Personally, I now take it as a red flag to look closer.

Anyway off my hobby horse and sorry for the derail.

I don't think this is even about lesbians, it's about bisexual women, who for some reason are disproportionately affected by domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking: Findings of the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey conducted by the US Center for Disease Control and Prevention

And just for the sake of context, AllDayBreakfast is a male poster who has referred to women as "jealous cat ladies" on another thread.

Executive Summary of that report [I would normally bold all of it but I want to use bold to add emphasis to highlight]:

"Women living with female intimate partners experience less intimate partner violence than women living with male intimate partners. Slightly more than 11 percent of the women who had lived with a woman as part of a couple reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by a female cohabitant, but 30.4 percent of the women who had married or lived with a man as part of a couple reported such violence by a husband or male cohabitant. These findings suggest that lesbian couples experience less intimate partner violence than do heterosexual couples ; however, more research is needed to support or refute this conclusion."

"Men living with male intimate partners experience more intimate partner violence than do men who live with female intimate partners."

‘jealous cat ladies’

That needs an eye-rolling, laughing, shrugging all in one emoji

HotRocker some for you. Your posts are always very thoughtful and well-considered, and the point you make here is well made.

Absolutely HotRocker will do. There really should be no place for lesbophobia on a site like Mumsnet