Alice Thomson (The Times): Gender obsessives are old-fashioned sexists

[TimeLady]

In our bizarre new world we have become fixated on a set of rigid Victorian ideals of gender roles for men and women

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-obsessives-are-old-fashioned-sexists-5xrnhknhn?shareToken=6b3a59bda0dae1c2390bbef255beb886

Thank you, Alice, for this comment piece.

(Points up)

GC women on MN are super conservative, we are. Naice ham and prams, everyone!

Weirdly, I saw a Reddit post recently where a trans identifying male born person posted about their new, bespoke ‘bottom surgery’ - they had a ‘vaginaplasty’ but had retained their penis. Photographs were provided,

This went down well with commentators, many of whom expressed an interest in a similar outcome for themselves,

How this is legally justified under current treatment pathways, I cannot fathom, but I suppose it’s the logical realisation of the theoretical concept of being ‘non binary’?

Surgical risks are presumably smaller than in accepted SRS but how an outcome like this could be desireable for anything other than fetishistic reasons is currently beyond me.

I mean, I know men who have split their cocks down the middle for the sheer hell of it, but they wouldn’t have expected a doctor to do it for them!

(My last and final pram was a Micralite btw - doing my bit to keep the site relevant to advertisers!)

So, to be clear, this person had a "neovagina" installed...where, precisely? Balls removed but penis retained and put where the balls used to be?

I mean, if people want to engage in extreme body mods then I suppose the old "fool and their money" cliche applies, but if they're expecting the NHS to pay for it then they're going to need a better justification than "but I want to".

Yep, orchiectomy and skin graft from a donor site elsewhere on the body (they didn’t say where)

Presumably the neovagina is in the same gonad-cavity as with usual forms of SRS (which isn’t the proportionally the same distance from the anus as an actual vagina is - even the best surgeons can’t do a thing about that).

This particular poster isn’t based in the U.K. but one of the commentators insists that their NHS surgeon will do similar procedures.

@Bettydumonde - That's pretty horrific stuff, forget the ethics for a minute because just wanting something that extreme should sound 'serious mental health issues' klaxons, there shouldn't be a surgeon who would be willing to perform this but it's where we've gotten, they (dubious surgeons) probably tell themselves it's no weirder them women sticking silicone sacks in their boobs.

then not them*

But but but. Can the penis get erect without testicles to provide testosterone? Or does it just flop there (and provide a handy way to pee standing up)?

(I am not certain I want to know)

Well quite.

Stuff like this makes me think trans people need more medical gatekeeping/mental health assessment, not less.

It was my understanding that surgical transition helped people suffering from gender dysphoria fit into society better, thus alleviating the distress of the dysphoria and enabling a happier, more productive life.

This surgical hybrid cannot, in anyway, shape or form, be justified on the same basis.

My jaw literally dropped open. Didn't know that really happened.

Link here for one of the nullo individuals who describes themselves as between genders. They clearly have had to deal with a number of unfortunate issues in life but I struggle to see how extreme surgeries are helping in any way.

Here’s a US provider advertising non-standard options:

www.mozaiccare.net/gender-nonconforming

I had no idea this existed either, until now!

Ova - I've officially lost my appetite for today, ' no doctor in Europe will touch it', because it's mutilation and they were right to question mental health. He sounds like he could do with an intervention, he is no fit state to make such drastic decisions over his body.

Ova that’s so sad - why on earth someone would assume that travelling abroad to get a surgery that is considered unethical (and thus illegal) is a good idea is beyond me :/

In contrast, I was in the same social circle as Lucky Diamond Rich while he was actively pursuing his project to become entirely tattooed with black ink.
He consulted a doctor to ask about risk and was advised to limit the number of hours of tattooing he sat for each month and to entirely heal one area before moving onto the next.

That it what informed consent should be like, to my mind.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_Diamond_Rich

It is sad and probably not too far removed psychologically from people who become infamous from extreme (but more conventionally thought of) surgeries. Those who aim to become living Barbie and Ken dolls or have the world's largest breasts I imagine have similar issues going on.

I just read the comments,Alice in response to a reader comment;

'Surely we owe it to our children if not to ourselves not to accept insanity as normality '

the tide definitely seems to be turning