Talking to people in real life: Fairplay for Women

[Candidpeel]

Hi - I'm an old MNer back from hibernation with a name change (I used to hang out here a lot when my kids were younger, have been back lurking over the past few months watching, learning and being appalled by the spread of genderism - - and in awe at the brilliant work you have been doing on this green party trails 🙌🙌🙌 ).

I've sent off for the FPW pack, but I not quite sure what I'll do with it when it arrives! This week I plucked up courage to out myself as gender critical in public at least on the Internet and posted about the GRA consultation on my local mums FB group. It's very unpolitcal and I thought the response might be mixed....

It was outright hostile. Lots of people said "I feel uncomfortable about this discussion" and some jumped in with transphobic, disgusting, poison, shame on you etc... The admins repeatedly deleted threads and I got banned for 24 hours! (I was mainly using language from the FPW briefing and really trying not to be inflamatory).

It surprised me (I guess I was naive) - - these are not organised TRAs, or even woke millennials - - just a cross section of mums.

When the discussion inevitably got onto changing rooms, several said that they'd be perfectly happy with a transwoman toweling her feminine balls or soaping her feminine cock alongside them in the gym changing room (🙄 really?!) because it's gender in the head that counts. And the idea that there might be any kind of safeguarding issues at all was dismissed as scaremongering and bigotry.

I did meet a mumsnetter , which was fab. But the whole thing was depressing.

Anyway I wondered how others who have ventured into the real world of talking to people / promoting the FPW guide have got on?

Anyone got war stories, victories or top tips? (or just encouragement to each other to go out and brave it!)

I'd say - pick your audience. Any Facebook group with younger people in it will probably have lots who have been brainwashed trained to call out "transphobia". But there are other Facebook groups out there. You could maybe start a new Facebook group for those of your friends who do want to chat about this stuff.

If you're happy to put this stuff on your FB wall, then did you know you can put posts out to a limited audience? You can choose to not show your posts to people you know will argue with it.

If you know a few people who are gender critical or at least open to listening, how about inviting them round for a chat, or arrange to meet in a cafe or pub to talk about it and send them all home with leaflets and ask them to fill out the consultation. (Don't do this with people who will argue with you!)

Or - are there real life groups you have any connection with? I'd love to chat to some church groups for example - shame I'm atheist and don't know any! Ask if they know about the consultation.

I went flyering in one of the FPFW groups. The vast majority of people who we spoke to in the street were onside, it was really encouraging. If you're thinking of speaking out in public, you shouldn't do this on your own though, you need at least one other person with you just in case you come across any antagonistic people.

I expect the FPFW packs come with some good tips about how to use them too.

The "gender is all thatc matters" in a changing room is wilful naivety IMO. There was a good article on that just this week, I'll see if I can dig it out.

TImes investigation:

Unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities, research by The Sunday Times shows. Almost 90% of reported sexual assaults, harassment and voyeurism in swimming pool and sports-centre changing rooms happen in unisex facilities, which make up less than half the total.

...

At least two-thirds of all sex incidents in public pools and leisure centres, whether inside or in the grounds, happen in unisex changing areas. Only a handful occur in single-sex changing rooms, the figures, released under freedom of information (FoI) laws, show.

They might pretend to believe that sex is irrelevant but the evidence shows women need protection from male-bodied people.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger-8lwbp8kgk

You're going to need this.
1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.
10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
11th rule of misogyny: Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.
13th rule of misogyny: Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.
14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

It helps when you can name the misogyny for what it is.

Candidpeel
I sent off for it too but was going to leave leaflets dotted around at work mainly. I know that's much less impactful but I'm surrounded by the woke.

The public are on our side. Like Painted, I was out at the weekend, given what I read in the media and on SM, I thought we would get some flak, but we do, it was great talking to people who immediately got the concerns.

I gave some leaflets to my dad yesterday, who handed them out to people in a park. I've walked round locally on my own and spoke to people with no problems. A couple have said no to the leaflet, as they're not bothered, but they're in a minority. People will show a level of vitriol on line, where they have back up, that I don't think will materialize in the majority of face to face interactions.

Not one person I’ve ever spoken to has ever thought a Woman could have a penis or a Man should be in a private Female only space.

I can talk at work fairly freely about it, although I am always careful to distinguish between transsexual and TRA. Everyone, and we are all ages, are aghast at the proposals. The youngest of us was peaked by the Girl Guides guidelines, she is also now spreading the word to her friends and family.

On the other hand, I cannot talk about it at home. My daughter especially thinks I am transphobic. She says I should live and let live and there are better battles to fight. I try to explain that I have fought all my life for women's rights, for equality for all, I boycotted South African fruit before most people had heard of Nelson Mandella. I have helped to run unions, local Labour Party treasurer, and all sorts of community work including setting up a Community Transport scheme. I am a fighter, always have been. She knows this, I gave her her politics, her drive to fight for the right thing. But on this, we are miles apart. She works in a college and when I mentioned Mermaids she laughed in my face, she said if anyone was going into schools and colleges and encouraging children to start on hormone blockers she would know about it. She read their web page and said they do good work. And now she says because I lied about Mermaids I am lying about other things too. I am fighting a losing battle, she thinks I am a bigot. Everything I say she says 'and where did you read that? The Daily Mail? Times? Telegraph? Spectator? All those publications you would never have read'. That will teach me for teaching her critical thinking! So family, not so good, work people, more encouraging.

Thanks all.

Yes it was saying they were totally cool with penises in the changing room which surprised me most of all.

I guess its a cognitive dissonance thing - the logic goes it is wrong to discriminate against minorities. transwomen are a minority. therefore it is wrong to discriminate against them coming into women's spaces. Its hard to unpick the logic of that so instead people try to say things that are consistent with the existing logic 'I would be totally fine with a trans woman in the communal changing rooms whether she had had surgery or not' ...when in fact if it was to happen I don't think they would be fine at all!

Anyway the thread got frozen so no more conversation, but hopefully at least got some people thinking.

Now i'm just waiting for the pack to come

I have had no problem talking to anyone IRL. Online forums probably not the best place to broach a sensitive subject.

Online I would post something like KJ Harrison's piece in The Economist and point out she is a transwoman who has concerns about the legislation.

Flippin there have been pieces in The Guardian, The Economist, The New Statesman too have you tried sharing those?

Also the court case Mermaids were involved in.