Council leaflet to kids starting secondary school - genuinely interested in your thoughts!

[NothingOnTellyAgain]

My DD1 is starting secondary soon and all the children were given a leaflet at school from the council, all about travelling safely to school.

It is pretty good I think. Reading through I see that the main areas they are wanting to send a message around are:

• Walk or cycle instead of driving if possible
• A lot about safety crossing the road
• If you use public transport be considerate

All good stuff. There is a bit about peer pressure and also about bullying (say no / tell a grown up).

When I was reading it, I thought that my main fear for DD going to and from school on her own was not related to any of these. It was based in my experiences, my friends experinces when we were schoolgirls going around the place, of worries about what if she's approached by a creepy man / men, or some random shouts or does something that she finds scary or upsetting.

There is no advice in the leaflet about what to do if something happens that makes you feel uncomfortable or worse.

My experience is, and reading on MN as well about other growing up and experiences their DDs have, that this is still a common problem.

I don't think that there should be "special" advice to girls but I do wonder if it should be alluded to at least a little bit. So something not sex specific to say what to do if someone does or says something that makes you feel uncomfortable.

Or, is this too scary? The stats and warnings around getting hit by cars are all in there though and they are pretty scary.

i honestly don't know what I think. What I know is that in many parts of the country this is something that is pretty common and also pretty hard to deal with / know what to do.

So, should it be mentioned, even in an oblique way? Or not?

What do you all think?

Probably the elephant in the room. Any mention of how to deal with creepy men will be met with "NAMALT", "what about creepy women" plus they'd no doubt word it in a way that makes girls feel responsible for unwelcome attention.

I agree OP. I've been really conscious of this recently as I've heard lots of reports on a local feminist FB group about school girls being harassed/flashed at/assaulted. I'm interested to know how schools are broaching this subject with girls and what advice we as parents can give our daughters that won't totally freak them out.
I'm not sure I've got it right. I've probably given my DD the impression that all men are monsters . Well, not really but I have been really clear with her that most people are good but some people aren't and that she should always trust her instincts and never be afraid to ask others for help or be rude and scream or tell someone to f* off if they're bothering her. I've also told her about the importance of sticking together with mates and I haven't tried to hide the fact that sometimes I'll cross the road to avoid walking past someone who's making me feel uncomfortable.
Not sure if this is the right approach or not.

Joy - they could keep it completely sex free - as the rest of the leaflet. "What to do if a grown up makes you feel uncomfortable" type thing, in fact it's better to keep it neutral I think.

It just seems like, this is definitely the biggest thing that girls have to deal with (potentially / probably) as they start to become independent.

The question is - is it missed out on purpose OR is the leaflet written by a man / men and they literally haven't thought of it. Or, considered too scary? But it's scarier when it happens if you don't know it's "normal" and you can just leave (ie it's the one time you really don't have to be polite - a point pushed in the leaflet).

WhereAreWeNow -

Yes we need to prewarn them and give them some tools in my opinion.

Is this one of the things that is "women's business" and so we are supposed to quietly pass it down from mother to daughter without offending men's ears with the facts of our lives?

"is the leaflet written by a man / men and they literally haven't thought of it"

On this bit - it reminds me of recently when a woman was imprisoned in ?uae after she reported a rape.

i looked on the uk website with advice for foreign travel and this risk was not mentioned. As a travelling woman, surely it's really important to know stuff like "if you are raped it might not be a good idea to go to the police". there was advice about alcohol etc. It felt a bit "man as default" >> like all the stuff a bloke needed to know was covered but not the specific addiitonal things for a woman.

It's a bit the same with this leaflet.

Not that I think there should be a section for girls in the leaflet (but there should be on the travel advice IMO. although that issue with the uas might apply if a man was raped as well?).

There should be something for both girls and boys- they are both just as vunerable at that age especially. You deffo have to speak to them yorself and say what to do and how.

I really think that an organisation like Childline needs to get a grip of this - the sexual harassment of school children by men in public places.

Individual schools may not feel confident about effective ways of coping/negotiating.

I wouldn't know where to start with lobbying Childline or similar charities, but I feel there has to be some leadership and recognition of the appalling stress for children.

Perhaps a tweet to childline - pointing them to this (and another thread about a 13 year old being persistently harassed) ?

Agree Pam.

They could encourage adults to help out as well if they see a child being followed / hassled / etc.

I've stepped in before - said "Oh hi I havent' seen you for ages! to the girl" and got her away, they subside at that point and vanish. It's not tricky and you can do it without confrontation.

Tweeting is a good idea but I don't twitter!

Probably only works if a woman does that -

A man doing it could be dodgy as well.

NAMALT but this is what we have to negotiate. Is the man "helping" more of a risk than the first one? Will it be even harder to get away from him, as you're supposed to be all grateful and chatty with your "rescuer"? And he's got a lever - and some trust.

Yes leave that one to the women. It's always been left to us. Why are so many men dodgy as all fuck?

We had be aware of stranger info when I was at school back in the 80s, so people weren't afraid of saying it in the past.
I'm sure it referenced men too, and I don't remember anyone saying NAMALT at the time.
I remember a (male) police officer addressing our school and telling us what to do if a man asked us to see puppies, or told us mum had told him to pick us up.

I suspect that assault on the way to school isn't mentioned because it might put some parents off letting their children off walking to school. The risk of attack is very low, unlike the health effects of inactivity.

We had a danger day when i was about 11 which has always stuck with me. We were set off on a task and then part way through a man appeared calling for his dog, asking if we had seen him, would.we mind helping to look for him etc. Just at the point where we were about to be drawn in, one of the policemen working with us appeared and pointed out what we were about to do. It was really powerful actually.

The risk of actual assault may be low, but the chances that you might be stared at or have comments directed at you as a teenage girl is very likely indeed.

It doesn't suprise me that many men wouldn't intervene. I'm trying to think how I would play it if i were a man, in such a way as to neither make the girl feel uncomfortable or confront the man directly, potentially leading to an altercation.

The easy way to take sex out of it would be to state that boys and girls can sometimes be the recipients if unwanted attention, from other teens or adults - because in some areas, friendship groups clash, or actual and exist; and (according to my copper friend) the chatting up of young teen and preteen boys by older men on public transport is far more common than anyone ever wants to think about?

But is that really part of a 'back to school' leaflet, or should it actually be a stand-alone - probably needing police endorsement - though it could be distributed with secondary transition stuff.

I agree with OP. I think kids should be advised what to do if adults make them uncomfortable. They have to be told their boundaries are sacrosanct.
Even just common sense stuff. The "stranger danger" did induce a bit of a panic, but I would rather children be told not to willingly go with someone they do not know. If adults need help with something they can ask another adult... As for street harassment and what to do in the moment it happens, it's tough because even as an adult woman I am not always sure what to do. It's very situational, and some of these men are volatile.
They should always be encouraged to report to their parents anything that makes them uncomfortable.

The leaflet can't cover everything.

does it talk about aggressive dogs?

does it talk about bridges over deep water?

does it talk about mobile phones and moped muggers?

does it talk about missing the bus and not knowing the way home?

all these dangers have been encountered by my tutorgroup in the last few weeks of term.

can't include every single common danger- being run over is the most common and most dangerous though

you could just go on all day

We’re constantly getting alerts from various local secondary schools about adults trying to get teens into their cars etc.

Yet it seems like a very long time since I last heard of a proper ‘Stranger Danger’ type campaign?

Something could certainly have been added to the leaflet, even if it was just a ‘how to report’ an adult who has made you feel uncomfortable or similar?

"I suspect that assault on the way to school isn't mentioned because it might put some parents off letting their children off walking to school. The risk of attack is very low, unlike the health effects of inactivity."

Actual assault may be rare but being approached, having stuff shouted at you, being followed, having men sit next to you on the bus v close and strike up conversation etc are very very common indeed.

"does it talk about mobile phones and moped muggers?

does it talk about missing the bus and not knowing the way home?"

Yes to these - at least it talks about mobile phones generally and missing the bus specifically
It also talks about peer pressure, bullying, cycling safety, going around when it gets darker (wear something that can be seen) etc

The risk of a man or men being weird at you if you're a schoolgirl is very very high. And it is a situation that many girls understandably do not know how to handle. eg the leaflet says a lot about always being polite to adults - this is a time when it is OK not to be. Not to be rude necessarily but to have been told actually you don't always need to politely converse if someone is weirding you out.

It seems to me like an obvious omission (whether delierbate or not) for something that is very common.

Stranger danger campaigns are no longer thought to be effective, because:
Strangers are more likely to help than to harm (eg a lost child shouldn't be afraid to ask for help)
Children find it hard to identify strangers, and associate danger with "scary-looking" people.
People children know are a greater risk than strangers.
It's inconsistent. Parents like myself talk to strangers all the time. It is essential for my work, and something I enjoy.

Child abduction UK has produced a helpful guide on keeping children safe. Summary:
www.childabduction.org.uk/images/Beyond_Stranger_Danger_In_Brief.pdf
Full report:www.childabduction.org.uk/images/Beyond_Stranger_Danger.pdf

TL;DR: teach children to recognise and respond to malicious intent, resist lures - and to yell and run away!

Yes- that's the sort of thing I mean!

Just for me -

This is a very common problem and one that makes many girls feel uncomfortable while out and about, for some it destroys their confidence completely

Just to acknowledge it and give some high level advice would be a good start.

Like I say - I just read the leaflet and it is good, it just seemed to have this massive glaring omission.