Girl Guides-safeguarding

[happydappy2]

In light of the awful revelations of David Challenor and the fact that he & Aimee Challenor advised Gov't on trans inclusive policy-might now be a good time to lobby Girl Guides regarding their stance on allowing 'men who identify as women' to be Guide leaders and stay with girls on residential trips, without informing the parents.

The safeguarding issues are too huge to ignore, & I'm sure many within the organisation feel uneasy about it but are afraid to speak out.

Perhaps now they will realise not everyone pushing for trans rights is a good person.

I think they already know. They have been lobbied by people and leaders who are concerned. However they have been advised by Stonewall - and indeed have held fundraisers for Stonewall - and Aimee Challenor is on the trans advisory group for Stonewall. You can just join the dots.

They won't care until a number of girls come forward and say they've been abused. Not one or two, they'll be dismissed as transphobes.

Depressing, I mistakenly thought it was run by women who might have an ounce of common sense - I have emailed again but doubt they will respond.

They are only girls, nobody gives a shit about girls.

It's so fucking depressing. I'm minded to withdraw my girls. Such a shame.

It IS run by women who care, but they seem to have been railroaded. I honestly despair

The thing is, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If they keep things as they are, gender critical people won't accept it.

If they change and no longer accept self-Id, the TRAs won't accept it.

Either way is a headache for them.

Sadly, until there is a serious incident, nothing will change.

I will be emailing about this too.

Girlguiding’s trans policy is a safeguarding time bomb. Allowing men who identify as women to provide personal care to girls as young as five. Allowing boys who identify as girls (whatever that means) to share showers and tents with girls on sleepovers - and preventing leaders from informing parents.
It’s madness. Who does it benefit? Certainly not girls or women. Only fantasist males.

If they contacted every parent with a consent form before every trip to confirm:

1. permission for their teenage daughter to change, shower and use the loos with male bodied teens,
2. That they (GG) weren't going to tell them before or after if their daughter was going to be one of the ones changing/showering/sleeping next to the male bodied teen - and they couldn't ask.
3. their daughter would not be allowed to complain about getting dressed/showering/sleeping next to the male-bodied teen.

Then they'd probably find no headache at all: there'd only be the girls of the wokest of woke plus some male bodied teens.

And as TRAs are a handful of people out of an entire population and they likely don't have daughters in GGs, why are they even getting a say?!!

Guide leaders DO care strongly about safeguarding.
Being a "safe space" for girls and young women has always been a fundamental part of Guiding.

Many leaders have challenged the change in status from "single sex" to single gender and have been silenced, ignored or even placed under "investigation" for questioning the party line.

They really aren’t damned if they don’t. The exemptions in the Equality Act apply so they are perfectly within their rights to say girls only. If a boy who identifies as a girl wants to join one of these groups, Scouts is already mixed sex, so the child isn’t missing out. When the opportunity to join Scouts is there, you have to ask yourself why a boy or a man who identifies as a girl/woman specifically aims for Guides. It’s not necessary and not the only option.

Couldn’t agree more Squirrel

GG have responded to tweets on this from Janice Turner & the guide leader questioning their policies/safeguarding:

Janice:

Whilst @GreenPartyAimee was campaigning for natal men who self-ID as women to have access to Girl Guide camps, her father was raping 10-yr-old girls whilst dressed as a little girl. This is a dark, tragic story which should make us think very hard.

Helen Watts:

Yes. Questions need to be asked about the extent to which an individual, who is patently unqualified to advise on safe guarding policy, was able to influence organisations like my own Girlguiding, either directly or indirectly through other groups.

Girl guides:

The current policy and guidelines on our Equality and Diversity policy were developed based on feedback and queries from members, advice from expert organisations in the field and to ensure we comply with the requirements of the Equality Act 2010. Info: girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding…

Janice has also asked about impact assessments:

I look forward to seeing what those contain.

Girl guides:

The current policy and guidelines on our Equality and Diversity policy were developed based on feedback and queries from members, advice from expert organisations in the field and to ensure we comply with the requirements of the Equality Act 2010. Info: girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding…

Can someone who probably knows more than I do explain to me how the Equality Act 2010 applies to this?

Thought it would be helpful to include the response I got from Girl Guides when I wrote recently

I asked about their very strict policy for male children of leaders going on residential trips and got this in response.

we do allow volunteers’ family members to attend residential events. Such requests are carefully considered by the local commissioner and as a part of the mandatory risk assessment or any trips. However this same process would not apply to a trans girl as this would be a breach of the Equality Act.

They are saying that the Equality Act legally prevents them from carrying out safeguarding procedures.

I have written to EHRC to find out if this is indeed true and am due to hear back before the 4th sept.

LemonJello

That sounds to me as if they think the provisions of the GRA (the legal fiction issue for GRC holders) applies to children and young people - which (of course) it doesn't.

The thing is, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I think the best way out of this for all relevant single sex provisions and organisations is to make sure they are fully trans inclusive by making sure trans men and non binary women are included. Not by completely erasing the term "woman" a la cancer research (and I think, as with most of this, that was more to appease the "some women don't have cervixes crowd) but by adding whatever terms are deemed necessary. Sure some of the resulting language would make some GC people's eyes roll but that would be a small price to pay for strengthening single sex exemptions. Some organisations and services are single sex for a good reason. To move with the times, they need to be clear they are now single sex / mixed gender.

Yes Vicky, that could be their interpretation. But as far as I’m aware the legal fiction of a GRC does not prevent safeguarding processes either, at least not in so many words. I will query that with EHRC though, thanks.

Might be useful for Janice to be aware that GG are under the impression there is a legal imperative to abandon safeguarding processes for trans identities?

I’m not on twitter but maybe some kind soul could oblige?

I have a boy not a girl but I if I had a girl I would send her to beavers/Cubs/scouts which is just an absolutely rubbish position to be in because these organisations used to be all about giving opportunities to girls. I loved brownies and guides. Girls are literally being sold down the river here it is just appalling.

If Scouts can have M&f and have safeguarding arrangements in place why can't guides etc?

Lack of knowledge. Fear. Being too pc. Failure to take advice from appropriate places in this case independent legal advice. Just shocking.

It's been posted up on the tread lemonjello, hopefully Janice will notice.