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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harriet Harman: "it’s time for men to aspire to be deputy leader and allow a women-only contest for the Labour leadership"

25 replies

ShotsFired · 25/08/2018 21:38

This could get interesting. Harriet Harman is very clearly not toeing the party line because when she says women, she means women.

And she wants those women in positions of power. Not men playing at women.

www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/harriet-harman-it-is-mortifyingly-embarrassing-that-labour?utm_term=.eqaZJm5BD#.hhw9vQa3K

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 25/08/2018 22:15

Yes, but the way the party is right now, even if such a thing were to happen, it will just be another almighty bunfight or worse.

thecatfromjapan · 25/08/2018 22:22

This is so far from where the Labour Party is right now, the distance should be measured in light years.

And I say that as a (despairing and utterly demoralised) member.

BonnieF · 25/08/2018 22:32

Ridiculous.

Harman had the opportunity to stand for the leadership twice, in 2010 & 2015. She bottled it both times. Other women did stand for the leadership ; Diane Abbott, Yvette Cooper (for whom I voted in 2015) & Liz Kendall. They didn’t win, but that’s democracy.

Harman is projecting her own character flaws onto others.

thecatfromjapan · 25/08/2018 22:47

She's implicitly suggesting an all-women (all natal women, at that) shortlist for a leadership election.

She's suggesting that only that will overcome deep-rooted sexism in the membership, leadership and society.

She's suggesting the Party leadership need to be in the vanguard of acting to counter-act that deep sexism.

She's right.

However, the Party is actually moving against all-(natal) women shortlists. Apparently, we're past the need for that, as a society. We need to up our game and have a policy of self-identification and some sort of 'non-men' thing for shortlists.

Because we're past the need to actively promote women.

Yvette Cooper didn't win. She was massively experienced - but she didn't win. And I don't think it was just because she was up against the Magic Grandad.

user139328237 · 25/08/2018 22:57

So the tories have managed to elect 2 women as leader without any need for all women short lists and they are supposedly the party that are more traditional and less progressive. It is anti-demorcratic to ban half of the membership from standing because they have a penis and quite frankly the mainstream media would make the labour party a laughing stock if they as much as seriously considered proposals that only women could stand to be there next leader.

UpstartCrow · 25/08/2018 23:46

I don't want a woman leading the Labour Party and being complicit in their awful policies on women.
That would be no better than May being female and leading the biggest assault on women's rights and welfare we've seen in the last century.

seafret · 26/08/2018 00:22

100 % agree, Upstart. What a way that would be to scapegoat a woman, and attempt to legitmise anti-female policies. Oh see a woman did it.. FFS.

theOtherPamAyres · 26/08/2018 00:52

Well I'm glad that someone is pricking Labour's conscience about its poor showing. As things stand, the only way that a woman can lead Labour is if they "do a Thatcher". That is to say......

....The Tories wanted to get rid of their leader Ted Heath, but none of the Cabinet wanted to be seen to stab him in the back. Maggie volunteered and humiliated him in the first round.

At this point, the chaps patted her head and said: "We'll take over now, Margaret". To which she replied "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough or feck the feck off". (Or words to that effect). Ahhh, a beautiful moment ......... but then she became PM, and that's another story.

Go, go, go Harriet and keep reminding Labour that it cannot rely on women's votes for a men's club.

Polynerd · 26/08/2018 00:56

the magic grandad crying with laughter, thanks cat

TerfsUp · 26/08/2018 08:05

I think you will find that women who stand and are who elected will bear a strange resemblance to men.

LassWiADelicateAir · 26/08/2018 09:17

And I don't think it was just because she was up against the Magic Grandad

I disagree there. The magic grandad won because of the lunancy of the leadership voting system. People voted for Corbyn because of his extreme left wing policies.

I voted for Cooper - not because she is a woman but because she isn't a communist.

TheGoddessFrigg · 26/08/2018 12:48

Ladies! I have been told - by a male Momentum member - that it DOESN'T MATTER that a woman has never led the party as 'What impact would that have on a working class cleaner? Classism is more important - and feminism is some sort of fluffy frilly add on the Party will consider when they've sorted everything else out.

Singlenotsingle · 26/08/2018 12:53

Nonsense. The best man for the job! Grin

(Entrenched sexism, I know, but seriously - the best person for the job!)

BraveAndStunning · 26/08/2018 12:56

What are you on about? We all know Lilly Madigan is going to be the first woman leader for the Labour Party. I even choose my username thinking of her

LangCleg · 26/08/2018 12:58

TheGoddessFrigg - point them in the direction of this excellent piece by Dee O'Neill (I love her) about actual class/radical politics and the utter uselessness of woke bro faux socialiasm.

medium.com/@deirdreoneill_40170/class-identity-politics-and-transgender-ideology-a2c368835bd6

TerfsUp · 26/08/2018 13:20

BraveandStunning, oh yes. I am sure that LMadigan bravely and stunningly juggle being the first woman leader of the Labour Party with motherhood.

thecatfromjapan · 26/08/2018 14:27

TheGoddessFrig Yes, I've had that line parroted to me frequently. The irony, of course, is that - in the UK - class is gendered, and raced. The poorest household tend to be single parent households, headed by women. Austerity has impacted primarily on female caters. You can do some sleight of hand, saying these women aren't proles or properly working class because they're not paid for their labour but ...

This is all well-documented by groups such as CPAG.

It just makes it even more crazy that the dominant political Party, meant to represent the interests of those groups is, by and large, headed by men. Who, of course, can be trusted to speak and act on their behalf. 😡 As though all those women are just the ventriloquist's dummy, woodenly providing a facade for anything the chaps say.

It's an obscene reversal of what should be happening.

Which is why people get involved in Momentum, I guess; it promises change. Though I'll be honest, I think Momentum is owned by a man and has an over-representation if quite macho woke bros at the steering level.

And that, of course, brings us to the joy that is LM.

KidsDriver · 26/08/2018 19:00

Harriet Harman's comments are clearly sexist... she is clearly saying that no woman can get the job if men are in the contest because she wants them excluded? It's funny dispite Labour members talking a lot about diversity... it's the Conservative Party which put it into practice, they have had two women leaders both of which became prime minister... in the last Conservative leadership contests it ended in an all women shortlist. Two woman who fairly beat all the men because of their ability and capability for the job. They were not their just because they are women. Harriet Harman has had a number to chances of standing for leadership and chicken out... well you don't get want you don't try for...

Caucho · 26/08/2018 19:48

Harmon lost all respect when she was campaigning for all female shortlists then got her husband parachuted into a safe seat previously earmarked for women

prunemerealgood · 26/08/2018 19:51

Labour are so dead, this essentially doesn’t matter.
(Ex lifelong Labour voter Sad)

noblegiraffe · 26/08/2018 19:55

Is she suggesting there’s a possibility that Corbyn might ever leave? I thought he was it for eternity now.

Carrrotsandcauliflower · 26/08/2018 20:04

If she means women as in actual biological women I’d vote for her- if she came out and said she is in support of biological women right now she would be the first. Come on then Harriet!!

ShotsFired · 28/08/2018 08:25

It seems like now is the absolutely PERFECT time for @MNHQ to get HH in for a live webchat. We can clarify her stance!

if she means what we would like to hope, she'll lock in a shit ton of votes.

OP posts:
rosy71 · 28/08/2018 09:04

Ladies! I have been told - by a male Momentum member - that it DOESN'T MATTER that a woman has never led the party as 'What impact would that have on a working class cleaner? Classism is more important - and feminism is some sort of fluffy frilly add on the Party will consider when they've sorted everything else out.

That sounds like the type of thing that was being said in about 1900; justification for women not yet having the vote!

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