I KNOW it's been asked before but I still don't understand ....

[BertrandRussell]

....why all these public organisations, the political parties, BHA, Liberty- everyone is just accepting that TWAW. What brought them to that conclusion? What was the thinking, the rationale? Some of these are groups that struggle with using Ms, ffs! How has it happened? When the first people came to them and said "From now on, we can self identify as a man or a woman, regardless of our biology and you must change your structures to reflect that" why did they say "OK then" not "Don't be silly"?

I think it's good old misogyny bubbling away under the surface and then, like toxic lava, finding an acceptable conduit to flow to the surface. Organisations can deny women, call them names, silence them and exclude them, all in the name of being progressive and inclusive. The fact that their inclusiveness is centred on other men is what makes it genius.

They can go back to privileging men, just like the old days, rolling back women's rights and invading their spaces, but maintain the moral high ground because women are bad, terfy, transphobes.

The biggest language slip is gender instead of sex. The whole house of cards rests on the fact that people have bought that gender (feminine, masculine; language used by feminism from the 1970s onwards to show the ways societal structures and ideals shaped the paths and choices open to women and did not rest on female biology).

Gender is not sex - at all, and was never intended to be used as such. However, the advance of gender studies (and the language of gender) replaced women’s studies (and the progress of women’s rights).

The march of gender brought greater understanding of masculinities and how they were constructed (but took the political impetus out of talking about women and being female - if you talk about gender, you talk about the interactions in society of men and women, what is perceived as feminine and what is perceived as masculine - that is observational, and analytics - but not a political force for change)

Then the concept of gender identity (an innate sense of whether one is masculine or female) helped conflate masculine/feminine with male/female. A man can be feminine - no issue there (aside from the entire concept of certain things being feminine, and thus associated with the historically weaker sex, caring, domesticated and objectified woman). But by being ‘feminine a man cannot become a woman, only a feminine man.

Unless you confuse matters by calling gender sex. Because of gender is masculine/feminine, then that can be changed. And people prefer to say gender when they are not talking about the sexual act. What gender is your baby? The question sets my teeth on edge because even if you believe in the concept of gender identity as an innate feeling, how can a baby express or say this? Any gender specific clothing, colours etc for a baby are determined by sex!

So language is important.

What language do you find difficult to understand? Happy to help but it might be better on a new thread

First paragraph is complete - should say people have bought that gender (...) is the same as sex.

Sorry I don’t have much time today but Wich- that’s exactly why we need to stop using them. They are closing the debate by shutting it down with abuse and closing the availability of understanding with jargon. It really does make me think of 1984. I think we should consciously opt out of all of it and stick with full explanation for the sake of newcomers.

I had an emergency c section- it was a nightmare before hand afterwards was almost as bad. I remember thinking why didnt someone just give an a4 sheet with 12 bullet points stating what to expect and what was going to happen- maybe that’s what we need. Just plain old bullet point sheet of information- proper old fashioned public service information. Staying stand point and explaining why.

Sorry if this already exists!

Newcomers and lurkers.

Women have organised speakers today(25th August) to talk about the impact of the Gender Recognition Act and guess what?

The organisers turn up at the venue to find it's been targetted by Gender Extremists with grafitti. A demonstration is expected because the adverts to join a protest went out a few weeks ago.

The meeting is going ahead. Doesn't that beg the question: "what is so dangerous that the people affected can't even talk about it without inviting public disorder and intimidation?"

It makes our discussion on our use of closed language an inconsequential one. The people demanding transgender rights don't bother with such niceties. They use force.

twitter.com/let_woman/status/1033333076519268352?s=17

Because many people, perhaps most people, will tell a lie if it benefits them, and will turn their face away from the harm that befalls others.

Because telling the truth has become punishable.

Because people allow others to set the terms of their integrity, to make the rules.

It's no different from every atrocity in history. People who want to think of themselves as good are nothing more than cowards with a self preservation instinct.

Noone believes the lie apart from the most deluded of all. And even they have to work hard to maintain the delusion. Don't answer questions, don't look at the consequences, don't make things clear, don't look the truth in the face.

Factsheet:

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

It is about sex and gender, and the GRA consultation. One minute to find on google.