Questioning a school re GNC pupils

[Smugpenguin]

Wasn't sure how to title this.

In a few weeks we're going to start viewing the local state primary schools for our 2019 school starter.

Unfortunately we're living in what seems to be a hotspot for supporting the transition of primary aged children (hope the following link is OK to post).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3254152-Misgendering-is-illegal-and-boys-who-ID-as-girls-can-now-share-bedrooms-with-girls-on-school-trips

So Arbury primary will be one that we view.

I'm not the most eloquent of people, but this is a topic that I do wish to broach with all the schools we visit.

Please could you help me compile a succinct but thorough list of questions that I could ask to work out where a school stands on this?

I don't want to be labelled before my child even starts (!), so I don't really want to be "all guns blazing", but just sensible, rational questions that will get the answers I need to inform our application choices.

This is something I'd possibly home school or move house over, so I want to have the facts I need - I just need to know how to get them!

I don't want to start my kids at the school and find out in a year or so that there are boys in the girls toilets, girls in the boys, and parents are being told to legally change their 4 year old''s name on the say so of their 4 year old who likes to play with dolls.

So, wiser people, what should I be asking?! Thanks for any help!

At primary school there is less need for sex segregated provision, particularly in Key Stage 1. For example, it is fine for young children to do PE together and they often change in classrooms so the teachers can help with buttons and laces etc.

It might be worthwhile if you focus in your questions on how they challenge gender stereotyping and avoid specific subjects, clothes, toys etc being seen/labelled as boys or girls things. You could ask them about their sex and relationship curriculum. Schools usually start with teaching the names of body parts in Reception, you might find it interesting to hear how they do this.

Ask to see their anti bullying / pastoral care / safeguarding and any other equality policies. They should be on their website and that will give you a heads up.

Look for policies that are kind and accepting and don't tolerate bullying. If they are shouting about having Mermaids, GIRES, Transpire in the school then I'd be concerned and would want to tease out whether they understand the difference between letting children be themselves versus gas lighting children and imposing adult concepts on them.

Trans issues should be a minute aspect of a child's primary life - barely noticeable in the grand scheme of things. If trans issues are writ large with tales of pink and blue brains, trans children presented as the most brave ever then I'd walk away I'm afraid as that would suggest that the adults are pushing an ideology rather than focussing on the needs of children. It would also make me question their capacity to safeguard children.

I forgot, from the age of 8 schools must have sex segregated toilets and washing facilities - that's the law. If they're talking about genderneutral mixed sex toilets for all then they're wrong. Guidance for schools here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

This is really helpful, thank you.

I feel like it's such a minefield.

I'm hoping it really is a minor part of anything, but I'm just concerned it will become a bigger thing than it needs to be because schools will be increasingly desperate to show how progressive and inclusive they are. Which is all well and good until they start telling my kids they are capable of changing their sex!

tiredandweary - i wonder if you know how a certain Labour women’s officer was able to take their school to court in order to use the facilities for the opposite sex if legally they have to be sex segregated ?

SirVixofVixHall
Yes I was aware. The guidance has just been published but I suspect that the legislation (dated 2012) has been in existence as part of Building regulations for decades - just one of the bits of legislation that some organisations like to "ignore" or "forget".
It's interesting that the government published it some months ago in this guidance following Ofsted uncovering some awful practice in schools that discriminated mainly against girls.

I just wonder why the school in that case capitulated when they had the law behind them? It must have been pretty grim for the girls.

Our local primary does have gender neutral toilets, but they are rooms with a single loo and sink coming directly off the main corridor so I am happy with this. They have never been promoted at GN, they are just the loos. I am still wait for a reply to my questioning what resources they use to teach gender identity and trans issues.

I suspect that they just didn't realise. I only realised when I read the guidance. Although sex segregated facilities are both normal and usual. maybe the school caved in before it went to court? Maybe they were gaslighted by the issue of self ID? That will be the issue for schools but I think there is some case law? suggesting that gender neutral facilities for an individual are an acceptable compromise alongside single sex ones.

Tell 'em your kid's trans and see how they react.....

titchy I must admit I wondered whether that was the best way to get the real answer from them...rather than a wishy washy placating answer...

I think it is high time they answer in a straightforward manner if it is their policy to forcibly transition all children who do not conform to rigid sex role stereotypes.
That is what they are doing. Do they have policy support for the child abuse they are perpetrating?

Individual toilets I don't have an issue with. I also don't have an issue with young kids changing together in the classroom. The thing I think I'm mainly worried about it the confusion that would be caused by kids being told they can pick which sex they want to be. They're way too young to understand how ridiculous that is. So I guess it's more the teaching I need to find out about than the practical implications (though those would worry me too in many ways).

Tell 'em your kid's trans and see how they react.....

Take a pal with you who isn't aiming to get a child into the school at any point (I'd do it!) to pose as the parent of the trans child.

thebewilderness do you think it's really heading that way? I feel too out of the school loop at the moment, though am reading up what I can, here and elsewhere.

I hate the thought they would actively promote transition in children who don't fit the stereotypes - it's bad enough in my view to support the transition of the few minors who may have some kind of dysphoria.

What a mess.

I don't mean they shouldnt support the children who are genuinely confused. I just don't think it is the place of the school to be actively affirming anything that is (hopefully) being dealt with appropriately outside the school. Sure support the child, but don't change everything for all other children based on something that is outside of the schools area of expertise.

Vicky - good point! Should probably not pretend it's my child! That could make things tricky when term starts!

Kids are talking about being told they are trans by adults and classmates and told they are in denial if they say they are not.
They are being bullied every day until they submit to the demand that they identify as transgender.

why the school in that case capitulated when they had the law behind them?

Because they gave in after being bullied approached by a big law firm who convinced them that someone saying "I am a girl" is indeed a girl, and I suspect that the legal counsel engaged by the school either wasn't that great or the school just wanted to smooth stuff over asap and screw the effect on the actual girls at the school

It might be worthwhile if you focus in your questions on how they challenge gender stereotyping

This

OleannasWimple
So they never got to court, they just caved in when the lawyers started writing? Which is understandable. Court cases are expensive in terms of money and reputation. And with the rights of girls being seen of as disposable....

There is so little case law in all these areas. Everyone just caves in as soon as the bullying and threats start. From a legal firm to the police here:
www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

I agree on "asking about how they handle gender stereotyping". Are there any concrete examples that you can give of the kind of things you're concerned about so they can respond clearly (or not!)? It's a few years back now but at one point a lot of nursery schools were running "princesses and superheros" days, so when I went to see nurseries I said quite openly that I didn't support activities like that as I didn't want my children growing up with gender stereotypes. People were a bit surprised I raised it but said "oh of course we would support children to dress how they want" but the one we chose just said they didn't run days like that. And I suppose I would look out for their general approach to communicating with parents, and ask about how they partner with the parents to handle any emotional or behavioural challenges (as any kid could have any challenge from quite a range, so it's a broad enough question not to get into any specifics you're not ready for).

Agree with MsBeauxjangles

It might be worthwhile if you focus in your questions on how they challenge gender stereotyping and avoid specific subjects, clothes, toys etc being seen/labelled as boys or girls things. You could ask them about their sex and relationship curriculum. Schools usually start with teaching the names of body parts in Reception, you might find it interesting to hear how they do this.

At this young age I’d be more concerned about if they’ve been influenced by trans orgs to teach trans ideology tbh

So the school caved out of fear and panic re costs and publicity by the sound of it . Thus trampling all over girls and giving the instigator a feeling of being above the law that persists to this day.
Interesting how the feelings of one trans identifying child trump the feelings of a school full of girls.
There was a child who felt he was trans as my daughter’s school. Thankfully the school gave him separate facilities, which he seemed happy with- I think he used the teacher’s loo. If he’d been put in with the girls I would have been extremely vocal in my protests and possibly removed my dd.

I vaguely remember that the force of the transborg was used to claim near universal support of the mythical peer group (in that a survey aimed at discovering peer group opinion was shared online and completed by older transwomen). The boy claimed that support for him to use the girls toilets and facilities was near universal I think. And I suspect weighty members of the borg pressured the school. The start of the bullying that is normal now.

Become a governor. We are local and I do not rate the head of Arbury, not least because of his team's coming out assemblies for children.

Governance is the way to challenge this. It doesn't help that Cambs CC own guidance conflates sex and gender.