Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Legal question about consultation

53 replies

theodora1972 · 23/08/2018 13:49

Hi, I'm trying to fill out the GRA consultation. I've looked at the fair play for women guidance, and at the GRA and EA. Despite over 20 years in law I'm struggling with this impenetrable legislation. So, here is a question for anyone familiar with the legislation.

Let's say Amber was born Steve, a man. Also, let's say self Id has triumphed. Amber does not have surgery or take hormones. But she lives as a woman, in that she calls herself Amber and sometimes wears skirts heels and make up. And she has a GRC. She goes to her local swimming pool, which astonishingly is run by feminists. Poor Amber is told to take her willy out of the ladies changing room. So, how does the law apply?

My reading of the EA and GRA is that paras 26 and 27 of schedule 3 to the EA have no role here. None at all. This is because Amber is female for their purposes, by virtue of section 9 of the GRA. But nor does para 28, because Amber does not come within section 7 of the EA - remember, no surgery, no hormones, all she's done is put on a skirt and some lippy (contrast the wording of section 7- 'a process for the purpose of reassigning sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex'). So, the pool has no defence whatsoever. They can't rely on the 'proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim' defence in the Schedule 3 exceptions because it is irrelevant. This is simply a case, for the purposes of the law, where a female (Amber) has been excluded from female facilities.

Is this right? If so I think this is an even worse outcome for women than that suggested by FPFW in their commentary on the consultation.

But, is there case law that would bring Amber within section 7? Is there anything to suggest this is the case?

Apologies if this is obvious.

OP posts:
LangCleg · 25/08/2018 10:18

This is a great thread.

Wherever you stand on the issue, I think the practical problems come from EqA, which is a poorly written and thought through piece of legislation. It exists because the New Labour administration knew they were about to lose the upcoming General Election and wanted to get something on the statute before they did and rushed it through. The result is EqA 2010, which is weak and full of holes beyond any issues with the interplay of gender reassignment and sex.

seafret · 25/08/2018 11:02

Apologies themostbeautifuldog I didn't quite get that!

I think having read the wording; plans to or "has undergone" re gender assignment, that I understood that the PC remains even after a GRC.

Its like PC bingo. Tick tick tick. And still no category of hate protection for women.

I love the law and agree Lang and barracker et al, the EA is a shower of shit!!

We should rewrite the whole thing :)

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 25/08/2018 13:03

Seafret I'm just talking through the "logic" of the EA / GRA interactions (or rather the lack of).

twitter.com/indy_leya/status/1033024629336682497?s=21 I don't know if this is relevant (am on phone app for both twitter and MN for very first time so struggling with thing like links and copying )

I think she is saying EHRC say a GRC holder is protected as pic of gender reassignment and so CAN be excluded from single sex provision if proportionate.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread