Discussion of "White Tears"

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I'm kind of on the fence over this issue.

As you may remember, Ruby Hamad wrote this article for the Guardian a few months ago: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/how-white-women-use-strategic-tears-to-avoid-accountability
The article claims that some white woman use tears when accused of mistreatment by women of colour.

Anyway, today the author posted this: twitter.com/rubyhamad/status/1031664912408371200
It's a Twitter thread in which the author claims that a friend of hers has been fired for sharing Hamad's article, which is shocking if true.

Personally, I don't recognize what Hamad is saying in her original article. Then again, as I am not a WoC, I have never been on the receiving end of what she is talking about. This is why I am on the fence.

However, if someone was fired for sharing the article, then I do have a big problem with that. I didn't agree with the article, but Hamad has the right to say what she likes, and people should be free to share her thoughts if they wish to.

I read it at the time and remember thinking, I accept her premise.

Also think it’s terrible but not altogether unsurprising if someone has been fired for retweeting. Bet it wasn’t a person of colour who did the firing.

Racism is with us ever.

It's part of the same free speech continuum though; firing someone for sharing it. It's a thoughtful piece about the author's experience, it's not any kind of hate crime or threat.

I am troubled by the way corporations and companies believe they own not only their employees labour but their minds - even their off-duty minds.

I can believe this happened. It's outrageous

I felt the original article was nonsense, and I'm fed up of how 'white woman ' has become a sneering insult used to shut people up - most often by white males.

But no one should be fired for forwarding an article on social media. That is a worrying attack on free speech.

I accept the premise of her article, and have seen the white tears thing in action.

I am not surprised that someone had been fired for sharing the article, but I am disgusted. I hope she can take action against her former employees.

You can claim anything though, can't you? On the grounds it happened to 'a friend'. I'd have thought the friend could take her case to an employment tribunal.

I have a problem with white men trying to silence white women on the grounds that we're white (wtf?)

I have no problem at all with BAME women pointing out the structural oppression they face and the ways that white women specifically contribute to this. I haven't personally seen the 'white tears' thing much (the infamous Mary Beard episode excepted) but then again I know plenty of men who think sexual harassment isn't a thing because it doesn't happen in front of them.

I agree it's appalling (if it's true) that this person has been sacked for sharing the article.

My feeling about the original piece was that there was an underlying misogyny to it. We so often see attacks on white women for being racist or middle-class women for being, well, middle-class, but we rarely see white middle-class men being attacked to the same degree. A lot of the hatred of Mumsnet comes from people who accuse us of being a bunch of "white, middle-class Mummies" as if that were some kind of crime, whereas you just don't see that kind of language used against places where men gather.

I came here to basically say what Tallulah said.

On a feminist board where we centre women's voices and the authenticity of their experiences, it seems strange to then doubt the experience of a black woman because white women don't recognise it.

And as sick as we are of having to say NAMALT, it makes no sense to start having to say NAWWALT. White privilege is a reality - as a white woman I have privilege in ways I probably don't even recognise.

Women on here worry that they might lose their jobs if they come out as gender critical, why would it be difficult to believe that a woman might lose her job for having opinions about racism?

I agree entirely Emma

I felt the original article was nonsense, and I'm fed up of how 'white woman ' has become a sneering insult used to shut people up

I agree.

making "made broad, unfair characterizations of white women as a group based on their race and gender." She and my article did no such thing.

That is what the article did.

So far as her friend who knows? If this was the only reason she was dismissed it is unfair.

Dance: "White privilege is a reality."

I agree. I think racism is still widespread, and black people have a tough time of it in a way that most of us as white people can't imagine.

I still think, though, that white women represent an easy target. Why not attack white men? A lot of the time the discrimination and racial hatred is going to come from them - they're the ones who will be sexually harassing black women, refusing to offer them jobs or promotion and so on. But no, let's have a go at white women for crying.

My feeling about the original piece was that there was an underlying misogyny to it. We so often see attacks on white women for being racist or middle-class women for being, well, middle-class, but we rarely see white middle-class men being attacked to the same degree. A lot of the hatred of Mumsnet comes from people who accuse us of being a bunch of "white, middle-class Mummies" as if that were some kind of crime, whereas you just don't see that kind of language used against places where men gather.

I agree. “White” is an insult thrown at feminism by white men who don’t give a crap about black women or black feminism at all. The irony.

Haven’t read the article yet- will be back when I have. But I certainly think that “middle class” has become the “uppity bitch” of our time. “Woman, know thy place”

I think that it is men who are the overall trouble-makers in issues like this. From my experience, men like to pit women against each other in the workplace, and then accuse them of being bitchy when things go wrong.

I used to work in an all-female workplace in the Middle East. Funnily enough, we had no bullying or bitchiness at all (from my experience). It was many women of various races and ages working together happily. I've never had that in a mixed-sex setting sadly.

I remember reading that. I just thought yeah, fair enough. I’m not a woman of colour so I doubt I’d even notice it if it happened unless someone specifically pointed it out, but then most people don’t notice some of the crap I get for having a disability. I frequently have conversations with people when I tell them something that’s happened to me that I found patronising or unpleasant. A lot of the time people say they’ve never even thought about it, which is fine, because I don’t expect them to think about it, why would they? Peoples reactions tend to either be yeah fine, I’ll take that on board, or no, you’re just imagining it. If the latter then I either avoid that person, or if I encounter them in an official/professional capacity, I’ll complain and kick up a fuss if necessary.
If someone was sacked for sharing a mainstream news article they should bloody well create ructions. Getting the boot for that is nuts, and 99.9% of the population would agree, as would the law I suspect.
Sorry for the ramble.

Yeah obviously the poor woman shouldn’t have been sacked.

But no one should be fired for forwarding an article on social media.

It depends if she did it from a work social media account, or if she's readily identifiable as working for that company from her social media account.

I know of people that have been disciplined for Facebook posts because they have a link to their company in their "about" section.

Personally I have no mention of my workplace on social media and certainly no work colleagues on there. It's asking for trouble.

I agree. “White” is an insult thrown at feminism by white men who don’t give a crap about black women or black feminism at all. The irony.

OK, well nobody has pointed it out to me before, but happy to add it to the list - and I'll mention to some of the lads when I see them on the weekend.

I still think, though, that white women represent an easy target. Why not attack white men?

I imagine that women who have raised the 'white tears' thing don't give white men a free pass either, and will also have talked about discriminatory behaviour by white men or white people in general - it doesn't have to be an either/or.

I have wondered, though, if BAME women may feel particularly betrayed by white tears because they hope for sisterly understanding and empathy from other women, whatever their colour, because of shared womanhood. They may have lower expectations of white men because there is no shared bond of either sex or race there. I'd love to hear from a BAME Mumsnetter whether they think there's anything in that.

White fragility is a very real thing. Women are more likely to express it with tears and men with anger. My only issue with the article is it focused on the women only. My whole workplace imploded in a fit of white fragility at the end of last year and it was terrifying to see how many women who would be the first to mock #Notallmen types were crying #NotallWhitepeople and attempting to silence the lived experience of the black students and staff. The backlash against black students and staff simply expressing their experiences was horrifying.

Agree that “white, middle class” are used by men to dismiss feminists.

However I agree that White women need to do better when it comes to supporting women of colour and take what they tell us seriously. My biggest white woman peeve is US white women calling the police on black people for completely ridiculous reasons- when they know full well that black people are routinely murdered by cops who are rarely prosecuted.

Unfortunately the concept of intersectional feminism has been bastardised by the gender cult.

qumquat that's appalling. I suspect there may be, as well as the general white fragility thing, an added element where white women are concerned, in that they are accustomed to seeing themselves as the oppressed rather than the oppressors and are uncomfortable with having their privilege brought to their notice, do you think?

uncomfortable with having their privilege brought to their notice, do you think?

No. If they are aware of being oppressed because of their sex they are probably left-wing, which means they'll be aware of their social advantages based on class, race, nationality, state of health etc.