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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Vancouver Dyke March

4 replies

2ManyDicksOnTheDancefloor · 20/08/2018 18:28

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/08/13/lesbians-excluded-vancouver-dyke-march-name-inclusivity/

I've just read this about the Vancouver Dyke March and have been peak transed once again. A march, organised by lesbians, banning and harassing lesbians for not being inclusive!

If you read the comments at the bottom there is a fantastic statement made by a man called Robert Gonzales who used to identify as trans but saw the light.

OP posts:
Apollo440 · 20/08/2018 19:01

You are right. Excellent comment from Robert Gonzales. Worth a thread in its own right.

Italiangreyhound · 20/08/2018 21:02

Shocking. Canada has really gagged on the kook aid. Angry

BraveAndStunning · 20/08/2018 21:09

OMG, this is chilling. I am so angry

My lesbian sisters, I will stand as an ally with you anytime, anywhere. Please know that you re not alone.

BraveAndStunning · 20/08/2018 21:12

Just c&ping that comment from Robert Gonzalez
--

"Trans people, by nature of their very being, shatter our culturally constructed gender norms, expectations, and patriarchal structure."

=Respectfully, I disagree with you. As someone who has gone through what is referred to as "gender dysphoria" and who once considered identifying as a trans woman, I can tell you that I wasn't shattering any culturally constructed gender norms; no trans woman or trans man does, and I've seen and known many. On the contrary, specifically trans women appear to uphold gender stereotypes and do so with aggression and ignorance of what it means to be a woman. I have observed no attempts from them to really understand women and their oppression. Many transgender women (from my experience) gravitate towards reinforcing gender stereotypes like: wearing high-heels; wearing short skirts; wearing "sexy" stockings; dressing in a generally provocative manner; altering their real voices to better match the culturally acceptable higher-pitched feminine voices; almost exclusively seeking to have long hair; exaggerating the significance of wearing makeup and etc. What does that sound like to you? Does that sound like it's shattering any culturally constructed gender norms? Honestly, that list only reveals the tip of the iceberg of gender conformity endorsed by trans women. When I finally realized the truth of it and the misogyny of it, I was fucking disgusted with myself. That was around the time that I started hearing things from transgender women (yes, adults) like "I knew I was a girl because I always loved the color pink and played with princess toys." as the main reason they felt the need to transition. I realize now that I and others like me were actually being offensive and either didn't realize it or didn't care. Emphasis was put on having "female traits" that were, really, mostly stereotyped behaviors or appearances. Both myself and or people that still identify as trans women (I no longer do) were/are just performing an elaborate woman pantomime, in most cases. What I see is something that more closely resembles something like woman "blackface" in some modern age trans minstrel show.

You are either a biological man or a biological woman. There is nothing else except for intersex individuals. I accept now that I am a biological male that embraces things that are not traditionally embraced by my sex or by my gender. I do sometimes wear makeup and I do appreciate some items that are traditionally associated with female fashion. I'm not a macho man and I don't embody many male stereotypes; however, none of what I've just said makes me a woman. I'm not woman-brained. I'm not wrong-bodied. The trans movement is actually terrifying to me now. It promotes in almost this fascist notion that you're absolutely in the wrong body and need to seek treatment. It exaggerates your gender dysphoria and further solidifies unhealthy thinking. It does nothing to try to help the person accept their body for what it is. Where the fuck does all the body positivism bullshit suddenly hide when it comes to trans people? The trans community almost had me believing that I should do things like shave my Adam's apple, shave my brow ridge, reshape my jaw or get breast enlargement surgery. Or! Even better. The holy grail surgery was to "correct" your genitalia. I was born with a penis and testicles. How is removing them going to make me more authentically me? Answer that with a straight face. How is any of what I just said promoting the notion of accepting yourself for who you naturally are? How does any of that correct gender dysphoria? What if it's actually creating it, for some?

The truth is that none of that promotes the deconstruction of "our culturally constructed gender norms." The answer is that none of it is deconstructing anything except for biological women's rights. The only way to deconstruct them is to accept the fact that we are either male, female or intersex. We have to accept that gender is most definitely a construct. But the construct will only go away when we accept the fact that you can be a man and be something like for lack of a better expression extremely feminine. You can be a female and you can be extremely masculine. I can wear a dress, wear makeup, wear high-heels, wear hosiery and I can still be a man and not even be "feminine." We're socialized to think certain articles of clothing are gendered, but they are just pieces of clothing. Anyone can wear them and still be who they are. They aren't cosplay clothing that turns you into a comic book character. My female friends can wear pants, have a shaved head, like sports and outdoor activities and still be 100% woman and not a "tomboy." We will destroy culturally constructed gender norms by no longer performing what I see as gender pantomime. Better yet, why the fuck are we promoting this idea that you need to change your GENDER just so that you can go and perform another gender? If gender is a construct, why does that matter? Be you. Do you. Embrace what you like, no matter its gender connotations.

This trans movement is doing no one any favors, especially biological women. The feminists you see on here are completely aware of the fact that that they are getting fucked over in a new and arguably more insidious way by biological men. Do you really think that men lose their male privilege magically and suddenly because they declared that they are a woman? And where's all the concern for the biological women that can't even say the word vagina without triggering a trans woman? Why aren't we defending the mythical "TERFs" who believe that trans women are not women (a biological fact)? Where's the concern for biological women in women's prisons who are no longer safe from biological men masquerading as women? What exactly are you supporting here? Intersectional feminism retains the name feminist within it and should therefore continue to maintain its focus on biological women who are in fact oppressed primarily because of their sex, something which they cannot wish or declare away, no matter how much some may want to. All you're doing is enabling the erasure of biological women from even "feminist spaces." Just as men have a hard time understanding a simple concept like male privilege, trans women suffer from the same problem. They see themselves as the ultimate form of an oppressed woman because they are such a social outlier. But whether they like it or not, they were socially conditioned and accepted to be male and will therefore retain the male privilege that goes with that, even after transitioning.

You might argue that trans women will inherit misogyny and discrimination based on their medically augmented physical traits (e.g. growing breasts, taking hormones, surgically altering their face, etc.). That, you might say, should enable them to be a part of feminism. But that takes for granted that these biological men have lost their internalized misogyny, their male privilege and have an instant grasp of what it's like to be a woman. This assumes that self-identification as a woman is enough proof for us that they are now women, too. They don't need to change their sexual organs. They don't even need to consider biological women's feelings. To ask them for proof of any of this is merely "transphobic" behavior. Their feelings matter most here because certainly they suffer more oppression than any "cis woman" ever could. Any "cis woman" who argues against that is a transphobe extraordinaire and deserves to be no-platformed. Do you see how ridiculous all of this is? Why is it impossible to question trans women now? Why is there a concerted fascist effort to eliminate all criticism? Hm, I don't know, that sounds awfully familiar to me. Is it perhaps because that's the same sort of silencing behavior that men often implement with women that disagree with them? Does that not sound like the gaslighting ("Cis scum! You don't know what real oppression means!"), the physical abuse/threats ("Hang a TERF! Punch a TERF!"), the unfair demands ("Center our issues! Fight for trans women too!") and the control ("TERFs are not allowed here.") that men have historically used to oppress and erase biological women's voices? Oh, wait, maybe it's because trans women are biological men.

As someone who actually considered themselves part of the transgender movement, I reject your notions. I stand by biological women 100%. I reject the transgender movement. I support women's liberation and I support radical feminists' efforts to fight for biological women alone.

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