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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If you're concerned about the early transition of children, read this

39 replies

D0do · 18/08/2018 18:12

4thWaveNow, the website for parents and others concerned about the new affirmative approach to gender questioning/nonconforming children and teenagers, keeps an eye on various open Facebook groups where gender practitioners in the US and Canada discuss issues. The link here is to the first in a series of tweets with screenshots from a recent discussion following a query from a parent with a child on the autistic spectrum.

The child socially transitioned at 4 and is now 8. The mother explains My daughter has been dealing with her transition by disassociating herself from the person she was and has created an entirely new identity and birth year. She also has autism which compounds how she interprets reality and deals with life. My concern is for her happiness and well-being! The time for hormone blockers will be coming in the next few years and I worry because she refuses to accept the reality that she is transgender and is insistent that she was born a girl and my worry is that she may be denied blockers because she will not admit to having male body parts/puberty. She says she doesn’t need blockers because she “is NOT a boy and was born a girl so why would she need blockers?”

It's clear from what the mother says that the child was extremely unhappy at four and was fixated on having the wrong genitals, saying 'I want to die' Sad. Of course the mother wanted her child to be happy and medical professionals have told her that affirmative treatment was the way to go. But a child on the autistic spectrum thinks very literally indeed and tends to be very rulebound, because, lacking the ability to intuit things, they look for rules to follow to navigate their way through life. Gender stereotypes are like rules. Children on the spectrum often find it extremely distressing not to be able to follow the rules.

Based on my own experience of raising a child on the spectrum, if that child had been mine I'd have wanted them to have therapy from someone with a really good understanding of autism as well as any co-morbid conditions like depression and anxiety, which are very common because these children find it so hard to fit in and make friends, and they get bullied so much. I'd also have wanted the professionals involved to take account of the fact that for children on the spectrum emotional maturity tends to lag well behind intellectual maturity. I don't feel that any pre-pubertal child has the maturity to know what they are giving up if they go on puberty blockers but children on the spectrum are surely the least capable of grasping this.

The discussion from the professionals, though, is largely about which drugs the child should have and when.

I don't think things would have panned out in quite the same way over here because the NHS does a lot of gatekeeping. Worrying, though. Parents with the funds to go privately and especially to go abroad could be doing this in the UK already.

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BarrackerBarmer · 18/08/2018 19:11

The parents are facilitating this child though with nonsense about him being their daughter.

I don't believe any four year old possesses any ideas about gender that are not derived from parents, families, peers and society.
No four year old concludes they are 'wrong' in a vacuum.

Those parents have failed that child.

This is your body.
It is male.
It is perfect.
There are no rules about what you can like, wear or play with.

The rules governing sex are far, far clearer than the rules around 'gender'.
Ask a child who has been taught they are a 'gender' what they can tell you about what a girl is, and out will tumble a mess of stereotypes. It is only as adults they learn to conceal these opinions, whilst still holding them privately as incontrovertible evidence of them having a 'female identity'.

These kids need deprogramming from this cult, seriously.

thebewilderness · 18/08/2018 19:40

They taught the child to dissociate from an early age, just as the gender cult is currently doing to children in schools with the backing of the government.
I was five when I started the dissociation process at the hands of abusive adults. I started the recovery process in my thirties after my last failed suicide attempt.
How is it effing possible that the medical professionals who are obligated to report this kind of abuse are advocating it? How?

VickyEadie · 18/08/2018 19:42

The parents are facilitating this child though with nonsense about him being their daughter. I don't believe any four year old possesses any ideas about gender that are not derived from parents, families, peers and society. No four year old concludes they are 'wrong' in a vacuum.

Agree 100%

D0do · 18/08/2018 20:27

thebewilderness Thanks

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hipsterfun · 18/08/2018 20:46

Just how common is it for four-year-olds to say they want to die? My own DC had barely formed a concept of death at that age, never mind suicidal ideation, so I’m surprised to read about small children expressing such feelings.

Voice0fReason · 18/08/2018 21:07

This is horrific. Young children don't understand these concepts of gender. It's even worse when you look at the idea of babies being considered as transgender.

thebewilderness · 18/08/2018 21:16

Children living in an emotionally abusive environment sometimes become preoccupied with death as a means of escape.

FoldyRoll · 18/08/2018 21:18

How can professionals who advocate this live with themselves? A neurotypical child is only just developing a sense that their sex is fixed at 4. We all know how quickly they go through crazes and fads. It is utterly appalling that professionals would endorse and promote life changing treatments for such young children who cannot comprehend the implications and are therefore unable to consent.

HotRocker · 18/08/2018 21:20

What kind of a parent constructs a lie around their child? Where the hell do they think it’s going to lead? If they gave any sort of shit about their child, and not how the world viewed them, they’d just let their child get on with the business of being themselves.
My mum has always hated having a gender nonconforming tomboy of a daughter, she still tries to feminise me every chance she gets. I think when I was a kid she just reluctantly went along with it hoping I’d grow out of it, but when I didn’t it was too old to do anything anyway.
In my opinion, and my experience, it’s more to do with how the parents feel about having a non conforming child than the actual child themselves. Only a complete narcissist would construct an imaginary world around their child and not have the foresight or consideration to realise what a fuck up it’ll turn out to be.
I’m not a fan of throwing about the accusation of child abuse, but this looks like child abuse to me.

D0do · 18/08/2018 21:26

I agree, I think it's abusive.

That Youtube clip above .... there are no words. I've seen it before but it never loses its power to shock.

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CholloDeNombre · 18/08/2018 21:37

This is deep brainwashing. I don't think this child is going to escape lightly, if at all, from the trans cult.

Clairetree1 · 18/08/2018 21:38

ok, so a 1 year old can ct out the message that they are being misgendered by being put into a babygro when they want to wear a dress.

So before this child has a concept of gender, sex, culture or recognises that they live in culture where dresses are more common on girls, they can make this decision and communicate this message.

even when it is common for babies of both sexes to wear both babygros and night gown type garments, they are able to assign one set of clothing as "male" and one as "female" and indicate their preferred gender through this medium

Before they have self awareness they are able to demonstrate skirt awareness.

ok.

I do have questions though.

Why hasn't this dangerous lunatic been locked up? How can all these adults be sitting listening to her as if she is speaking coherently. Is it some sort of mass poisoning event? or similar? are they all sedated or something?

thebewilderness · 18/08/2018 21:41

I have thought from the beginning that much of what is being done to children is Munchausen by proxy, or whatever the new name is for the abuse.

FesteringCarbuncle · 18/08/2018 21:50

Horrendous
Those who claim gender is innate and fixed never explain how a young child knows gender norms given that they change over time and place
It was Jazz Jennings who supposedly undid the poppers. How did the young Jazz know that dress=girl especially when many women wear trousers
And all toddlers I know unpop poppers

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 18/08/2018 22:28

That video manages to be both preposterous and horrifying. Quite an achievement.

FermatsTheorem · 18/08/2018 22:42

That video is just utterly batshit - and that woman is advising people in all seriousness on how to treat their children and rail-road them into irreversible, life-changing decisions.

BlytheByName · 18/08/2018 23:02

I'd read some of this in print but to see a woman actually tell an audience that a one year old undoes their babygro to make a dress is the mist ridiculous thing ever.
I have to say I think there is something very wrong with American society, their obsession with religion for example, and I think that weirdness is manifested here.
I.don't think we would see quite such batshit crap coming out of the mouths of most British people.

Or am I very naive??

BreconBeBuggered · 19/08/2018 00:11

What in the name of sainted ladydick is that bullshit? Somebody has to stop this dangerous abusive nonsense. I am all for young people expressing their identity, but this is sick.

NotMeOhNo · 19/08/2018 00:37

And all toddlers I know unpop poppers

Then they're all trans. You're still stuck in GCSE biology.

NotMeOhNo · 19/08/2018 00:43

Let's trans all the children! Puberty blockers Sweeties for everyone! Darwin Awards for all TRAs!

Koalablue · 19/08/2018 07:30

@thebewilderness
I agree. Its abuse and its all about the parents.

QuarksandLeptons · 19/08/2018 07:31

Placemarking

LizzieSiddal · 19/08/2018 07:49

Horrific and child abuse imo.

FlippinFumin · 19/08/2018 08:13

Perhaps unpopping babygros is a sign the baby wants their parents to lighten the fuck up.

My youngest son, it was his favourite game. He would unpop, I would fasten, he would giggle like a drain and unpop them again. And on and on until he got bored of that game and found something else to play with.

JellySlice · 19/08/2018 08:33

Of course those toddlers' behaviours are pre-verbal communication. The question is: what are they communicating?

Are they communicating an opinion on a complex, socially- and culturally-modified construct?

Or are they communicating an opinion on a sensory issue?

Or are they communicating the beginnings of understanding simple cause-and-effect?

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