Gender neutral toilets at work

[MuchasSmoochas]

I am posting this because my understanding is that some employers have simply put a Gender Neutral/Unisex sign where there is a room of cubicles and shared washing hand basin space.

Please refer your employer to Section 20 of The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 which states that sanitary conveniences shall not be suitable unless separate rooms are provided for men and women or each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside. Note it is room and not cubicle. The same Regulations state that washing facilities must be provided in the immediate vicinity of every sanitary convenience and are not suitable unless they are in single sex rooms.

Apologies for more toilet chat, it's just some information which some people may find helpful ( and which you may already know). Where I work they want to make some facilities unisex. They can't use the Male loos because of the urinals, so guess who will get the reduction in the provision of toilets?

There are no mixed sex loos at my workplace but what we do have are two young men ( in a company of @50 people) who have decided they are now women, using the Womens toilets.
Not a single woman is happy about this, even the youngest ones. Nobody is willing to speak up though, lest they be targetted as bigots, plus there are only 8 Women, all non-management
I would interject but I’m not an employee of the company, I work part time for a third party supplier.

It's awful, isn't it, that women can't speak up and say something. It really is like 1984.

Why shouldn't the toilets with urinals be unisex? Thats discriminating against women by removing their toilets.

Here's the link;
www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/toilets.htm

GenderApostate In that kind of situation you have to get organised and go in groups, accidentally block the entrance, and no one leaves until everyone is finished.

Yes, I can see why it might be difficult for you to say anything. However if these transwomen haven't changed sex through the GRC process, and there are cubicles with shared washing space, the employer is breaching the Regulations.

Thank you OP.
For those in education, schools MUST have sex segregated toilets and washing facilities for all pupils over the age of 8. No problem with having some gender neutral toilets but schools must have sex segregated toilets and changing rooms:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/719398/Gender-separation-guidance.pdf

Why shouldn't the toilets with urinals be unisex?

Yes, I don't understand this - why can't toilets with urinals be unisex?

If men don't want to pee in the open, they can go in a cubicle or a single sex toilet. If women don't want to see men peeing in a cubicle, they can go in a single sex toilet. I can't see why the urinals being there make any difference at all.

Americans are always saying on Twitter that public toilets in France are often mixed sex with urinals - it's not something I've ever encountered there, but I've not been everywhere so I have no reason to suppose they don't exist.

Being a green type of citizen I don’t buy those anti bacteria wipes . Think I’ll start .😬

Yes I agree, there's no reason why they couldn't use the male loos regardless of urinals. The rationale (which is wrong IMO) is that there are more trans women than trans men and women are more likely than men to use the gender neutral facilities.

I don't think the wash basins do need to be in sex-segregated locations, unfortunately. See paragraph 3 here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3004/regulation/21/made

Namechanged
Not sure if you are referring to schools or the workplace but for schools it is explicit - and it's MUST, not a recommendation.

Separate toilet and washing facilities must be provided for boys and girls aged 8 years and over pursuant to Regulation 4 of the School Premises (England) Regulations 2012, which falls within
the exemption provided for in Schedule 22 of the Equality Act 2010 .
From the guidance for schools linked earlier.

Yes, sorry, I was referring to workplaces.

is that there are more trans women than trans men and women are more likely than men to use the gender neutral facilities.

If there is a choice between women's , men's and unisex, my bet is that:

The women would mostly use the women's (unless the queue was too long)
Oldschool transsexual TW might use unisex or women's.
New style transgender women would use the women's
TM I'd guess unisex
Men would use men's and unisex.

Oops you are absolutely correct NameChange re wash basins, thanks.

Can I just point out that the guidance given above is for schools in England and Wales only.

My local council building standards department has confirmed the applicable legislation for schools in Scotland is The School Premises Regulations 1967. This stipulates separate boys and girls toilets.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1967/1199/pdfs/uksi_19671199_en.pdf

Betsy thanks for that
Is it the "half the accommodation shall be for boys" part? To my not a lawyer mind it reads as rather open to interpretation

Hmm, I hate the fact that terms in laws that are so bloomin' obvious that no-one gave pause to define them, are now being manipulated for other purposes.

This was what they had to say on toilets in the Scottish GRA consultation:
"However, the provision can also be updated to reflect the needs of modern schools. Currently the Regulation states that half the accommodation shall be for boys and the other half for girls and does not refer to unisex toilets. Flexibility should be permitted within this Regulation to allow the provision of separate toilet facilities for boys and girls except where they are provided for use by one pupil at a time. Urinals in these circumstances may no longer be necessary and therefore the provision of urinals should be optional if replaced with a toilet."

Yes Betty that is the crux. No one defined man or woman precisely because it was inconceivable crazy that anyone would imagine they were defined by anything other than reproductive function.

Thanks betsy looks like we can definitely argue it has been interpreted as separate sex toilets historically but i dont trust that the interpretation wont be changed (what with the sneaky redefinition on female amendment).

Although if it doubles the sanbin costs for all the schools...

Thank you for this post.

We have mixed sex toilets at work. The men urinate on the floor and leave the seats up (2 cubicles) for say 10 people, 6 women, 4 men in 2 offices.

We have put polite notices up but the dog like behaviour remains.

I don't use the loos if I can help it. I can walk 5 mins to the main site there to use another single cubicle unisex that's cleaner.

It pisses me off the men in our block do this. I don't know what else to do as 1 of the women who work with me are part of the HR team and don't seem too bothered!