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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Artistic Director of Queer Up North speaks out on trans activism, Stonewall and women's rights

337 replies

SanctimoniousMorph · 16/08/2018 09:30

medium.com/@JonnnyBest/the-story-of-my-first-brush-with-trans-activism-and-what-i-learned-3ef13e31fd37

OP posts:
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10
CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 16/08/2018 20:36

God I want to give him ALL the cookies. Someone hold me back.

SanctimoniousMorph · 16/08/2018 21:03

New tweet from @JonnnyBest:

I'm not done with Stonewall yet. Not by a LONG way ;-)

twitter.com/JonnnyBest/status/1030163607047335938

OP posts:
TerfsUp · 16/08/2018 21:06

Thank you, Johnny Best.

R0wantrees · 16/08/2018 21:13

I'm not done with Stonewall yet. Not by a LONG way ;-)

recent Spectator article 'The limits of Stonewall’s tolerance' by Josephine Bartosch

(extract)
"Instead of listening to the concerns of the women protesting, or acknowledging that there is a discussion to be had on this subject, Stonewall simply stuck to its line that transwomen are women, dismissing any deviation from this as ‘transphobic’. Stonewall’s chief executive Ruth Hunt said that the lesbians involved in the protest ‘have deserted the fight for LGBT equality’ and ‘have no place at Pride’. So much for ‘Acceptance without exception’.

Thankfully, Hunt’s outrage that there are other perspectives on transgender identities is not shared by all of those originally involved in setting up Stonewall. Simon Fanshawe, one of the co-founders of the charity, argues that Stonewall has ‘a historic responsibility to enable calm reasoned debate’. It is hard to see how Hunt’s response meets that test. Fanshawe says he fears that voices – including those of transgender people, some of whom prefer to describe themselves as ‘transsexual’ – are in danger of being drowned out by the reaction of the likes of Stonewall. He says:

‘Some transgender people are proud to identify themselves as ‘transmen’ and ‘transwomen,’ not simply as ‘men’ and ‘women’ and they feel marginalised by the language and ideology that seeks to diminish this difference. I do not wish to invalidate anyone’s experience, but by not acknowledging there is a debate to be had Stonewall are failing in their duty to LGBT communities to enable self-determination for all trans people.’

So why are alternative voices being ignored? A brief glance at the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group perhaps offers an answer: those who were born male appear to outnumber females by about two to one (a similar ratio to MPs in the House of Commons). Do those who sit on the advisory group have to hold the view that stated gender identity takes precedence over biological sex? It would seem so. Take Alex Drummond, for example, a transwoman who claims to be ‘widening the bandwidth of how to be a woman’ by sporting a full beard alongside the accoutrements of femininity (skirts and make-up). It is not transphobic to suggest that someone with a male body who wears female clothes has no place identifying as a lesbian; it is simply a different perspective.

In an interview in the Guardian in 2014, Hunt said: ‘I am not interested in being the thought police.’ Yet four years on, lesbians who fail to accept male bodied transwomen like Drummond as women are demonised by Hunt as apparently ‘working against’ the LGBT community." (continues)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/the-limits-of-stonewalls-tolerance/

R0wantrees · 16/08/2018 21:18

GayStar News article published the week before Pride London:

'Prides slam Stonewall for failing to support them, demand apology
In a survey of UK Prides, the country’s leading LGBT charity was rated just ‘three out of 10’'
(extracts)
"Pride events across Britain are calling for a public apology from leading LGBT charity Stonewall, GSN can exclusively reveal.

They are also demanding the charity changes its ways, with one Pride accusing it of ‘acting like the bloody LGBT police’. Other Prides accuse Stonewall of taking credit for their work but failing to support them." (continues)

"The biggest take-away from the comments from Prides which completed the survey is that Stonewall should work in partnership with them.

They want the charity to show ‘humility’. Some indicated Stonewall currently tries to control what Prides do. One called on the organisation to ‘Stop acting like the bloody LGBT Police. They need to “get over it”.’

The UK Pride Organisers Network report makes several recommendations.

They ask Stonewall to share the profits from Primark between Prides and organisations working in Turkey, Myanmar and China.

In addition they want Stonewall chief executive, Ruth Hunt, to say sorry. They want her to acknowledge ‘the disquiet among Pride organisers about their conduct’ and commit to working with Prides in future.

Moreover, they want Stonewall to promise they won’t take any future sponsorship or fundraising deal that ‘includes the word Pride’. This is likely to prove a difficult pledge for Stonewall to make, given their need to fundraise." (continues)

www.gaystarnews.com/article/pride-stonewall-support-apology/#gs._PTIESc

R0wantrees · 16/08/2018 21:26

Miranda Yardley article:

'Ma Vie En Rose: Ruth Hunt’s Rose-Tinted Trans*Goggles and the anti-Woman Politics of Stonewall'
(extract)
"I first spoke with Stonewall’s Ruth Hunt just over three years ago when the organisation announced it would be engaging with the transgender community. This resulted in the forming of the Stonewall Trans Advisory Group, you know that motley crew of transgender tyrants, including the self-styled (styled as if it were 1973) answer for any heterosexual woman who wishes to bring out her ‘inner lesbian’, Alex ‘Beardy’ Drummond. cheeky wink

Ruth, bless her fighting heart, has been defending transgender activists to an extraordinary degree, indeed there appears to be no transgression she cannot overlook with her inbuilt sense of forgiveness which seems divine in breadth and depth. She has embraced the very dogma that makes real life discussion, debate and compromise with transgenderists impossible, dogma which positions the interests of the T in ‘LGBT’ in opposition to anyone who considers biological sex to be important in any material way: trans women are women, no debate, end of.

Quite aside from it being cruel to humour delusional claims of one being something one is not, positioning one’s acceptance of an individual on a lie is outright dishonest. And anyway, what is a lesbian and gay group doing when it considers the thoughts and feelings of personal identity more important than the reality of our sexed bodies?

‘Trans women are women’ is a profoundly anti-woman statement, denying any questioning of this or debate is outright the sort of social justice fascism that typifies the regressive left and has led to the ongoing battle of self-identified women with penises against actual women, you know the sort with uteri and ovaries." (continues)

mirandayardley.com/en/ma-vie-en-rose-ruth-hunts-rose-tinted-transgoggles-and-the-anti-woman-politics-of-stonewall/

^picture & embedded link of the Stonewall Advisory Group from article.

Artistic Director of Queer Up North speaks out on trans activism, Stonewall and women's rights
ReluctantCamper · 16/08/2018 21:42

Gosh, doesn't he come across as a wise and civilised person?

I really enjoyed it, thanks for posting OP

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 16/08/2018 21:51
Smile
JonnyBest · 16/08/2018 22:13

Hi everyone. I just wanted to stop by and thank you all for reading the thing I wrote and for all the supportive comments and debate on this thread. There's one depressing truth I want to acknowledge up front: it's 24 hours since the piece was published and I have had only two or three abusive tweets. I know only to well that a women writing the same words as me would have had the whole abusive Twitter pile-on by now and god knows what else. The contrast is so stark. I can write what the hell I want and be left largely alone - a woman would be up to her neck in abuse by now. And we all know the reason why...

Anyway, thank you. You've all been very kind and I'm grateful.

Ereshkigal · 16/08/2018 22:16

Thank you Jonny. It's very much appreciated.

R0wantrees · 16/08/2018 22:18

Thank you Jonny, both for the article and your post here.

ChattyLion · 16/08/2018 22:18

Welcome to MN Smile
Keep writing!

FermatsTheorem · 16/08/2018 22:19

I said thanks for the article earlier, but heartfelt thanks for your post here too - it's great to encounter a man who really gets it. Twitter pile-ons, internet spaces in general - it's just a whole different ball game if you're female (one of the reasons all of us here love MN - it's one of the very, very few female-dominated online spaces).

WineGummyBear · 16/08/2018 22:22

This article has made my week. So very balanced and thoughtful.

Hello Jonny! Excellent work!

heresyandwitchcraft · 16/08/2018 22:22

Gin and Wine and whatever other beverage that MN doesn't have an emoticon for. Thank you again, Jonny!

DuckingGoodPJs · 16/08/2018 22:23

Thanks for sharing that Sanctimonious, great article. Sadly true that women are never listened to for saying the exact same things. Best did cover a lot of ground.

Did someone mention Sarah "suck my formaldehyde pickled balls" Brown? Classic. Brown is a one-person peaking machine, some of Brown's highlights shared in this comment thread at Gender Trender.

I also include that other classic from Brown 'off-putting vaginas'.

Artistic Director of Queer Up North speaks out on trans activism, Stonewall and women's rights
Artistic Director of Queer Up North speaks out on trans activism, Stonewall and women's rights
WeWantJustice · 16/08/2018 22:29

Oh well done Johnny

Yes, courage calls to courage

scepticalwoman · 16/08/2018 22:34

Good to see you here Jonny and thank you again for your insightful article. The more allies there are who call out the abuse and intimidation aimed at women the better. Maybe you can persuade some MPs to speak out? We're not having much luck with that - although in private many are listening and agreeing.

FermatsTheorem · 16/08/2018 22:35

"Off putting vaginas"?

Bloody hell, yes, one-person peaking machine in action.

If you're put off by vaginas then, to coin a phrase, "you ain't no lesbian, bruv..."

KataraJean · 16/08/2018 22:40

I read this article via Twitter. It is excellent. For me it crystallised the difference between gender as a societal means of oppression (my view) and the concept of gender identity (transgender ideology), and how this plays out in debate and practice.

And so nicely written and argued. Very thoughtful. Interesting to see which colleagues are sharing it on Twitter too.

Thank you Flowers

WaddIelikeapenguin · 16/08/2018 22:41

Jonny cracking job Star

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 16/08/2018 22:59

Oh he's here. That's it then. All the BiscuitBiscuit for Jonny.

Soz feministas. Blush

gendercritter · 16/08/2018 23:00

It reveals so much about the whole trans movement that you haven't experienced more abuse Jonny. How utterly depressing (but I'm glad for you, obviously). Some people really do not women to have any voice at all, do they?

JonnyBest · 16/08/2018 23:05

Just to pick up on some of the points being made here...

Quite a few people on Twitter are trying to get their MPs to read the article, or borrowing the explanation in the article about exactly why this trans activism is not like lesbian and gay activism. The Stonewall view - also promoted by columnists like Owen Jones in the Guardian - is that this is section 28 all over again and anyone who doesn't get behind the Stonewall agenda and agree to rewrite sex and gender to suit the trans lobby is basically a bigot. If what I wrote achieves anything, I hope it will assist those who know that this is bullshit and are looking for a straightforward way to express that and convince others. It's the most important thing: resisting trans ideology is not bigotry. This is not 1988. You are not 'wrong side of history'. This is completely DIFFERENT.

It's also important to get over to people is that Stonewall - the most significant LGBT charity in the UK - has transformed. It is no longer what it was. It is no longer an honest broker or a source of reliable information. It's CEO has distorted it out of all recognition. The place we would all go - usually - to find good, reliable info on LGBT issues, has lost its integrity. Quite how this gets fixed at the moment, I am not sure - but it is the next issue I will write at length on. And I know there are others working on this too. We'll try, at least! For now, Stonewall should be ignored. (And I cannot BELIEVE I have to write this - but it's what things have come to!)

And as for the formaldehyde pickled balls of Sarah brown...I just hope she doesn't get elected in Cambridge. Poor Cambridge does not deserve THAT.

Jx

JonnyBest · 16/08/2018 23:06

Oh, and yes to the drinks and the cookies. Mumsnet is great. You don't get drinks and cookies on Twitter ;-)