"coming out" to your kids

[heartofgold]

as gender critical...

i think i did this tonight, with my teens, in a roundabout way. we were talking around "slurs" and whether certain words (descriptors for groups) are acceptable or not, and why, or why not.

my eldest is gay and has a close trans friend. i've bitten my lip on more occasions than i care to count because i didn't feel my political views should take precedence over general family harmony and environment of acceptance. i got embroiled in debate tonight and let some of my neutrality slip.

(i'm a long-time-reader rarely-a-poster on fwr)

so, when you expressing strongly held/considered political views has the possibility of being to the detriment of family harmony... how does that work? i guess it has some similarity to being "out" in a work capacity? not a living at stake, but fundamental relationships...

I don't know really, my children are younger, so coming out has been part of our family life for quite some time. I felt it was important to introduce them to critical thought at a young age.
It must be difficult, how does your eldest, and his friend for that matter, feel about women's rights. Do they hold the belief that trans women are women? Many trans people do actually agree that women's rights are at serious risk of being eroded. Do they buy into that?

So long as your kids know they can still approach you as their Mum first and foremost with anything then not a problem. It is good to teach them to respect and treat others as equals and point out pitfalls/misogyny along the way in their steps into adulthood.

Sorry to say this.

It reached the point in my home when gender issues were simply far too inflammatory. DD very liberal feminist and pro all things trans: DS vehemently anti feminist but pro equality ("women should be soldiers" logic). I'm a rad fem. DP mildly supportive of my POV.

Ww3.

For other reasons, I left them all to it when the kids hit early 20s.

I am curious about this. Personally, I find that using a specific example and discussing it can be a helpful thing to do.
If I were speaking with teenagers, a video that might be useful to start a discussion is this one from Arielle Scarcella (a female YouTuber who was roundly condemned for being "transphobic" for making a video where she states she is purely being same-sex attracted). In the video I am linking she is hanging out with trans friends and they're talking about the hate Arielle has gotten for expressing her lesbianism/sexual orientation openly. It's pretty reasonable.

So long as your kids know they can still approach you as their Mum first and foremost with anything then not a problem. It is good to teach them to respect and treat others as equals and point out pitfalls/misogyny along the way in their steps into adulthood.

But mainly I agree this.

I felt it was important to introduce them to critical thought at a young age.

eldest has a good grasp of critical thought, but leans towards the identity-politics side of things. understandably i guess, being a member of a minority group that faces discrimination, and, historically at the very least, faced violence and worse based on identifying as part of that group.

i'm well aware that i'm no form of "authority" in regard of political opinions. i imagine eldest reckons they've worked it out entirely by themselves :D active engagement is a long way in my past due to life intervening.

we collectively have a sum of mental health and circumstantial issues that mean having a lighthearted knock-about political debate just isn't going to happen. these are deeply personal issues for eldest and my previous inclination has been just to shut my mouth and take my opinions with me...

Mine are small. I have bought them a book explaining reproductive sex in excruciating detail and answered lots of questions about it (would have done this anyway but probably with less evangelistic zeal)

Also mostly indoctrinating their father with the need to enact ungendered modes of being as much as we can rather than just talking about them

This is what I said to my Koolaid-drinkers: It's difficult when people have strong but opposite opinions about important subjects. I don't want to say "Let's agree not to discuss it", because I don't think any topics should be off-limits, especially between parents and children. I make you this promise: I will never embarrass you in front of your friends. Do not hesitate to invite them over, I will call them by the names and pronouns of their choice because I treat people with the same courtesy I expect from them.

It's a compromise position. The best I can do is model the opposite to the family-divisive trans narrative of aggression, hostility and arrogance.

tonight's discussion was tangential to gender issues. more about "don't call members of a particular group x because it's a slur" - policing language, words as violence, whether we have a right not to be offended by the language others choose to employ, whether the implications one person "reads" in a word used by others actually reflects the way that word is "written/spoken" by them.

it's deeply ingrained in me to try to placate and calm, but at the same time i don't want to model "being a walkover". it's a narrow line to tread, especially with kids who already feel marginalised and unsupported...

Also mostly indoctrinating their father with the need to enact ungendered modes of being as much as we can rather than just talking about them

in amongst all the bits of parenthood i clearly haven't been up-to-snuff with, i'd hope that gender-based expectations is one bit where i've walked the walk. as a sahm (after all these years my autocorrect still wants that to be sham, it's not wrong ) i specifically hoped to model that "women's work" is due respect and value beyond the economic sphere, and that none of those tasks are below (or beyond) real men, either.

the actual traction that wins me in terms of housekeeping has been rapidly overwhelmed by the desire to create a safe, loving, accepting home for a family with fairly diverse needs...

We have a lot of tangential discussions. Language, respect, choice, responsibility, safety, comfort, instincts, sport, politics, enfranchisement, they can all be discussed in a way that does not mention trans at all. My hope is that my dc will understand and embrace rational points of view on these topics, so that when trans ideology tries to tell them what to think, they will see how ridiculous, irrational and dangerous it is.

I have had a little success. My trans-ally teen recently explained to her younger brother why there were different sporting events for men and women. She explained how the male and female physiologies differed wrt sport, and pointed out how unfair it would be for a man to compete against women. This is a TWAW girl!

I said nothing. I did not challenge her with TW athletes. Just let it rest there.

Does that hair-flicking transgirl in the video first introduce herself as ‘slut’, or am I imagining it?

I’ve done the same with my eldest little one, Tallulah. Which book did you use? The one I bought cracks on with intercourse, getting it over nice and quickly, so to speak, then has lots of basic biology.

To a degree, heart, I think you’re modelling female socialisation - it’s healthy to disagree vigorously.

There have been some interesting programmes on R4 this week about how to have healthy debate and disagreement, that might be of interest.

To a degree, heart, I think you’re modelling female socialisation - it’s healthy to disagree vigorously.

when you have a kid that's made a determined suicide attempt your appetite for vigorous disagreement tends to evaporate somewhat, tbf.

although it is a fundamental part of who i've always been, i put it in abeyance for the interim. although it turns out that i can shut the door on my other half if his contribution is otherwise muddying the waters. without the worry that he might turn any resulting distress inwards (i checked after!).

" DD very liberal feminist and pro all things trans: DS vehemently anti feminist but pro equality ("women should be soldiers" logic)."

Sounds like a terribly fun household.

"I said nothing. I did not challenge her with TW athletes. Just let it rest there."

Why? Sounds like a perfect opportunity to show her how stupid TWAW is, particularly for someone aware why men and women have different sports in the first place. Though I guess one shouldn't use stupid.

Because that would have got her back up. Let her get a sound grounding in reality, in facts, first. If she already understands why athletics are separated by sex, and considers this rational, then when she comes across Gabrielle Ludwig, Hannah Mouncey or Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood, she will - I hope - see the nonsense for what it is.

Dd thinks it completely right that Guiding should embrace transmen and transgirls, but very wrong that transboys should be rejected. I didn't dwell on the TW aspect, but expressed it as appalling that Guiding was pushing vulnerable young community members out of their community, at exactly the point when they need the support of that community. Dd had a clear mental hiccup when she realised what she was thinking.

I can't push too hard. Just keep giving her the info in a way that will help her work it out for herself.

when you have a kid that's made a determined suicide attempt your appetite for vigorous disagreement tends to evaporate somewhat, tbf.

Ah, ok, I didn’t read that in your earlier posts.

My 15 yr old DD recently came out as a lesbian to me. However, before this coming out, I'd already expressed my opinions for same sex toilets and women's refugees, and against transwomen requesting to be transferred to women's prisons etc. so DD had pegged me as a transphobe.

DD resolutely refuses to engage in any LGBT issues with me now. Despite my attempts to explain my pro-women, pro-lesbian stance, she says "TWAW" but with no further explanation of her position DD also thinks I have no right to hold any opinions on LGBT issues because I'm cis-hetero (is that the new flavour I am now?!)

We're at a very frustrating and difficult impasse

I cannot push to discuss this any more, she is unwilling to engage. I hate to be misunderstood and for her to think (and call) me a bigot. I'm hoping as she grows up her thinking and ability to debate will mature....

In other aspects our relationship is rocky (usual teen stuff I think) but she knows I love her unconditionally.

hipsterfun

no i didn't mention it, but it's significant background to why sensitive discussions can be particularly sensitive and why i've generally backed off and kept my mouth shut. because i'm fairly certain the reaction will be I have no right to hold any opinions on LGBT issues because I'm cis-hetero

it also focuses the mind pretty strongly on mental health issues for young adults, and how clinging onto identity must feel like a life-raft for some.