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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

famous five, gender, time, reading ...

23 replies

sistermorphine · 09/08/2018 19:28

I'm 24 but I read the Famous Five series over and over when I was a kid. The character George was a godsend to a child of the same name with three older brothers who'd also worked out "it's so STUPID being a girl!". As the epic tomboy that she was I was very unsurprised just now to do a tumblr search on her out of curiosity to find all the posts tagged George Kirrin were ones asking if in 2018 she would be considered a transman....

So I thought it would be interesting to peruse the mostly now hilarious gendered vintage annuals I was given to read as a child in my Dad's house which included stuff from the 60s, 70s and 80s (guess my parents were of the 'well if it was good enough for me it'll be good enough for them' kind of ilk) like girls comic Annuals such as Tammy, Princess Tina, Misty, Mandy, Girls Crystal, Princess, Diana, Judy... etc. I don't have any kids of my own and don't really know what magazines 6-15 year olds read these days so I can't easily compare. What I did find was that although all of these annuals absolutely had pleeeeeenty of outdated sexist and racist stereotypes to be found in them (they were for the most part comics written by middle class white men), they also had exposed me to a really varied range of female characters from businesswomen, slave girls, astronauts, detectives, historical figures, sportswomen, cowgirls, maids to princesses... and of course always schoolgirls working together to overcome some sort of challenge or falling out with each other only to realise they were being silly and all the storylines you'd expect to find. A lot of these annuals included photos of important women from history like scientists and photos of women from all around the world in traditional dress . Misty was 2000AD-ish scifi aimed at girls without the rapey twilight aspect... www.newstatesman.com/2016/09/dark-forgotten-world-british-girls-comics-about-be-resurrected

What are your memories of such comics? did you find them vapid, sexist, offensive?

The only contemporary 'girls' magazine i remember reading as a preteen and early teen was 'Girl Talk'. What I remember the most from that was the endless 'embarrassing' situations people would submit and the quizzes to discover endless manner of inane things about yourself and your future. It was useful for questions I was too scared to ask about periods and kissing, I'm pretty sure.

So I search for contemporary UK teen magazines and I can't really find any pre/teen girl gendered ones other than 'Shout' and 'Seventeen' which seem to be about hair, makeup and celebrities judging from the covers. Apparently KS5 girls (16-18) read the most magazines out of UK young people so I suppose this includes Elle, Cosmo, Vogue.

Conclusions? Only questions! As mothers what do you find your kids read? How does it compare with what you were reading as a girl? Now we no longer have so many gendered magazines do we live in a less gendered world? Contemporary YA fiction from my experience seems to be pretty strong and has nothing like the gender roles of yore but this is novels. The Reading Agency stats find that England's teens and preteens read the least out of many other countries with 44% of british teens NOT reading for pleasure or outside of school and only 26% of 10 year olds 'liking' reading. That means these teens in theory rely on television and internet for pleasure and I believe it's these teens that are more likely to buy into gender stereotypes than it is book readers.

thoughts?

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cheesemongery · 09/08/2018 19:44

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BettyDuMonde · 09/08/2018 19:48

I’ve still got an enormous collection of girls annuals from the 60s-80s.

Misty and Diana are my favourites (I even have a Misty themed tattoo). They are pretty feminist - girls doing stuff, not just being decorative.

sistermorphine · 09/08/2018 20:06

Cheesemongerer: I was largely the same in the 90s and 2000s ever since getting my first pairs of school shoes when I was old enough to question why the only options for girls in Clarks were butterflies or flowers. Fuck that shit! I wore exclusively 'boys' shoes for the whole of primary. I wasn't the only girl like this, I remember me and two others joking with the boys about having the same shoes (we all played football together and enjoyed going in the mud and splashing in puddles and not getting our feet wet basically). I dont think this meant we were masculine girls. I don't think you liking 'mens' stuff as an adult woman makes you masculine either. I feel now as an adult that 'tomboy' is a very sexist idea although I was happy to be described as one as a child. As for the crushing on gay men stuff this was pretty normal as a teenager in my secondary school. I belonged to the generation that invented 'shipping' fanfiction on livejournal... I often reflect on this and wonder how 'normal' it actually was for teen girls to be writing sexualised stories about gay male relationships and how much this crossed over into nowadays tumblr generation and how these fantasies can influence ones view of their own sexuality and gender identity?

Betty: Girl's DOING things - exactly! I knew I wasn't totally off the mark to think of them as being somewhat feminist! Girls were intelligent, co-operative, active and came very much wearing trousers and skirts.

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Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 09/08/2018 20:32

I used to love Bunty. They were a bit feisty, hearty and problem solvers rather like girls in the chalet school books (which I also loved)

My daughter just reads Marvel.

BettyDuMonde · 09/08/2018 20:47

Found this blog post - nice scans of a 1975 Diana story:

kb-outofthisworld.blogspot.com/2014/03/british-girls-comics-diana-annual-1975.html

sistermorphine · 09/08/2018 20:54

Aaaah!!! when I made this post that was the strip I was thinking of the most, I just couldn't for the life of me remember what it was called. Fabulous four, excellent.

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concretesieve · 09/08/2018 21:02

Yy to girls doing things. There's a good book - Rosemary Auchmuty's A World of Girls, which mentions this. Not about comics - it's about girls' school stories, but well worth a read.

BettyDuMonde · 09/08/2018 21:05

My daughter is only 6, she’s currently collecting these:

www.waterstones.com/booklist/377114/little-people-big-dreams-series

Might try my old Mistys out on my stepdaughter (almost 12) but she’s into Japanese comic stuff, she might laugh at me!

BettyDuMonde · 09/08/2018 21:07

Just noticed, ‘Simone De Beauvoir, coming soon’ Grin

sistermorphine · 09/08/2018 21:14

Little people, big dreams look wonderful - my niece is 5 so might try her out with Ella Fitzgerald...
Manga especially is full of strong female characters and gather Marvel/DC have got much better too. Still, seems to be not much like the world of girl's school stories for showcasing women's capabilities 'without the dominating influence of men'!

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WaddIelikeapenguin · 10/08/2018 17:04

Oh I loved Bunty! I remember being teased for still reading it 🙄

Mine are readers & love comic books; Amulet, Phoebe & her unicorn, Nimona, Cleopatra in space, Zita the Space Girl, Zelda & other manga, Princeless etc

Magazine wise we stick to storybox (& the other age ones I cant remember all the names), nat geo kids type things.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/08/2018 18:25

I remember the misty story when they were filming a shark movie

AND A REAL SHARK TURNED UP AND ATE THE STAR OF THE FILM

Epic

I read bunty, beano, misty, 2000AD and smash hits

My children dont read any comic/magazines...i dont think they ever have

UpstartCrow · 10/08/2018 18:28

The best Misty storyline was when the stupid professor didn't think the big red Stop time button was real and he pressed it.

There - nothing happened now, did it?
There - nothing happened now, did it?
There - nothing happened now, did it?
There - nothing happened now, did it?

For. Ever.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/08/2018 18:30

Stupid professor

And director of the movie sho didnt realise it was a real shark

UpstartCrow · 10/08/2018 18:36

I also have a modest collection of Daily Mail annuals. One of them has an entertaining story about crystal shaped aliens that multiply at a terrifying rate and have to be defeated, and they look exactly like body lice.

TheCountryGirl · 10/08/2018 19:08

Rufus and Crow...I too loves Misty! The mags and the annuals. I loved the summer specials too. My favourite story was the plant people one...of course the girl was the hero as was wont in Misty stories.

I used to think Misty was the most beautiful and clever person ever.

TheCountryGirl · 10/08/2018 19:14

Thanks to a lot of older sisters, I have annuals from Misty, Diana, Jackie, Blue Jeans, Tammy, Mandy, Judy, Debbie...can't wait until my girls and boys are old enough!

Tanith · 10/08/2018 19:21

George Kirrin was based on Enid Blyton herself. She certainly wasn't a transman!

Fans of girls comics might enjoy this site:

girlscomicsofyesterday.com

placemats · 10/08/2018 19:22

Loved Judy, Bunty, Jackie and Mandy.

I was 'George' from the Famous Five.

TheCountryGirl · 10/08/2018 19:29

Does anyone remember Suzy?

Tanith · 10/08/2018 19:34

'George' meant something to so many women, probably because she was drawn from the author.

I understand Darrell Rivers, from Malory Towers, was her eldest daughter Gillian. Quite a fascinating site about Enid and her books here:

www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/society-shed.php

Nononannette · 10/08/2018 23:16

I had to hide my sister’s Misty as it scared me so much Blush

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