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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian runs article by trans man

17 replies

hackmum · 06/08/2018 16:23

I think this may be a first.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/06/transgender-men-metoo-feminist-secret-agent-male-privilege-patriarchy

OP posts:
placemats · 06/08/2018 16:57

Sorry but I had to laugh when he wrote that he had 'flushed the oestrogen' from his system.

I've just spent my afternoon clearing out a blockage in my dishwasher. (Twas grim).

placemats · 06/08/2018 17:02

Plus I love football. Have been several times to the beautiful stadium that is Manchester United and I've never encountered any harassment for being there. Perhaps that makes me a man?

LineRunner · 06/08/2018 17:02

I thought oestrogen in biologically born women didn't only come from ovaries? I know most does, but isn't there some from fat and the adrenal glands?

JellySlice · 06/08/2018 17:10

Confidence came as my transition allowed me to “pass” as a ... guy and the realisation that my gender doesn’t depend on what anyone else thinks.^

...
^
The world saw, socialised, categorised and treated me as female whether I wanted it or not.

What planet? This person has got it all arse-about-face!

The world doesn't see you as female, you are female.

And your gender does depend on what other people think. That is why I, an adult human female, ie woman, sometimes get called 'Sir' in shops - because people interpret the cues they get about me as referring to a man. What they think snout me doesn't change me, just their perception of me.

TheCountryGirl · 06/08/2018 17:14

I'm not sure how much more of their self obsessed drivel I can take. 😫

placemats · 06/08/2018 17:22

Exactly LineRunner

Nor can you 'flush' testosterone from your body.

I feel so much for people whose cancer diagnosis is due to the hormones in their body. None of them can flush that out of their system, whether male or female.

ThinkOfAWittyNameLater · 06/08/2018 17:28

I've tried to read this but I just couldn't. I think I managed a few sentences after the oestrogen was flushed, but my brain is actively rebelling.

I always believe in trying to understand another person's perspective but I think I need to approach this in tiny chunks.

heresyandwitchcraft · 06/08/2018 17:29

I appreciate articles like this, if only because they make me feel like feminist concerns are at least a little validated. I am happy for the writer if he is living a better life, but it sometimes feels a little difficult to think someone is "fighting patriarchy from within" when they've essentially technically tried to join the patriarchy... I've argued before that trans men can easily be allies of feminists, and that my own philosophy of feminism actually includes them automatically - it is their own ideology that might keep them out, not mine.

However, my biggest issue is with the following passage:
But advantages one may have had in the past because of your gender do not erase difficulties you may face once you have transitioned. Equally, disadvantages I may have faced as a woman cannot be deleted from my lived experience now that I’m a man.

The author here feels like he is being inconsistent. Either previous lived experience (with advantages and disadvantages) is materially relevant, or it isn't. You can't really argue that a trans woman's life lived as a man is not all that relevant to how they view life now, and then say your own experience of years lived as a woman is very relevant to your life as a trans man.
Either our early experiences fundamentally shape us, and need to be kept in mind when thinking about things like narratives and political representation, or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

Ereshkigal · 06/08/2018 17:39

The author here feels like he is being inconsistent. Either previous lived experience (with advantages and disadvantages) is materially relevant, or it isn't. You can't really argue that a trans woman's life lived as a man is not all that relevant to how they view life now, and then say your own experience of years lived as a woman is very relevant to your life as a trans man.
Either our early experiences fundamentally shape us, and need to be kept in mind when thinking about things like narratives and political representation, or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

Yes that was exactly what I thought when I read it.

JellySlice · 06/08/2018 18:10

I couldn't even get that far.

Maybe it's not trans ideology but trans mysticism.

Marilla27 · 06/08/2018 22:46

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Italiangreyhound · 06/08/2018 23:04

This article is not really telling us anything that we do not already know.

Beamur · 06/08/2018 23:17

Shock horror. Person discovers male privilege. Surprise to everyone. Not...

WhereYouLeftIt · 06/08/2018 23:31

"It doesn’t matter how I felt inside for those 36 years. The world saw, socialised, categorised and treated me as female whether I wanted it or not."

And this is the point that the TRAs try to deny when they do the 'but I've always been a woman!' It doesn't matter what they (claim to have) felt - the world "saw, socialised, categorised and treated" them as the males they were. They were socialised as men. They were treated as men and accorded male privilege. And any claim that this wasn't the case will fall on my deaf ears.

TalkingintheDark · 07/08/2018 00:00

heresyandwitchcraft and Ereshkigal, that logical inconsistency leapt out at me too.

Seriously trying to have it both ways. Bullshitter.

BirthCanal · 07/08/2018 00:10

I agree entirely with previous few posters.
My childhood shaped me and I can't identify out of it. Nothing to do with gender etc. But I cannot escape the effects of being brought up in my extremely dysfunctional family. I will never ever be that girl with the lovely dad. You cannot simply leave the past behind, however great or average or shit it was.

Italiangreyhound · 08/08/2018 07:44

@birthcanal i sm so sorry to hear of your experiences.

The article contains this "On the flip side, trans women are being denied full female inclusion because they once identified as male, in spite of how they experience life now. I understand the difficulties this all presents."

'Full female inclusion' is not being denied to people once 'identified' as male but because people are male!

It seems very common for trans men to include a comment about how hard done by trans women are. But not very common at all fot trans women to even mention trans men. Funny that because females often defer to males!

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