NHS told: give trans patients equal access to fertility service

[miri1985]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/04/nhs-trans-patients-equal-access-fertility-services

Anyone betting the EHRC don't take the same action to force the NHS to give women access to laser or electrolysis brought on by PCOS or menopause

I do not think that it is humanly possible to meet this requirement.

If this is happening, what does transing even mean? Clearly, there's transing - changing your body to resemble the opposite sex - and transing which is affirming that your natal body is and always was of a different gender from that associated with the sexed body identified (not 'assigned') at birth.

Seriously though, it's good that someone is thinking of the children.

No, no, no! I may be horrible but...

I've known teenagers with cancer desperate to preserve a shot at parenthood. I've known the partners of people who went through this scrabbling through the grim business of ivf.

It's a lottery and is frequently degrading.

Sterilization is sometimes a hideous side effect of saving a life. To choose it? And then demand equality with those who risk so much and have no option? Worse, to choose it for healthy children who cannot fully comprehend the implications.

Dear God...

I’m thinking a trans women who is a biological male is going to have huge problems delivering a full term baby.
A trans man who is a biological female probably doesn’t need ivf - just sex during a fertile period. Then I think if they really want to be a man, why would they want to give birth ( the absolute quintessential overt sign of womanhood).

I am going to be a little cruel here.
I am actually very very much on board with the principle of preserving gametes/fertility counselling for trans people. It's one of my biggest concerns regarding medical transition.
Don't get me started on my questions concerning the ethics of transitioning children, especialy this very topic.
However. This article to me reads like trans activists are now blaming the NHS for not doing enough for fertility preservation.
The dominant narrative in this debate has been that it's the activists themselves who are pushing for a rapid transition, especially for young people.
Additionally, as others have mentioned, fertility treatment on the NHS is not super well-organized for anyone, whether you are trans or not.

Cherry There are transmen who are certainly up to giving birth:
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/mar/22/story-one-mans-pregnancy-trans-jason-barker

So, if we follow this to its logical conclusion, men who have vasectomies should be offered free sperm storage and then IVF or IUI for their partners and women who voluntarily sterilise themselves should be offered egg or embryo storage and then fertility treatments? Where is the money for all this coming from? If a teenager does this, how many decades should the NHS pay for storage?

Also while sperm and embryo storage has a fairly high chance of success, successful pregnancy after just egg storage is fairly rare and from what reading things written by Professor Robert Winston seems like a waste of money.

I can't with Mermaids....

However. This article to me reads like trans activists are now blaming the NHS for not doing enough for fertility preservation.

I agree heresyandwitchcraft, I think some are gearing up for the eventual backlash of young people bring transed by blaming the NHS for not doing enough to help preserve their options when in reality a large percentage will have been on puberty blockers before any viable gametes could form. All the blame for all this will fall at the NHS' door for not gatekeeping enough

This will either be the end of the NHS or the end of all fertility treatment on the NHS.

I work for the NHS, it couldn’t even begin to financially cope with this.

Wasn't it the ECHR that obliged the UK to make the GRA in the first place?
Very similar acronyms, easy to confuse them

ECHR= European Court of Human Rights- supranational or international court established by the European Convention on Human Rights.

EHRC=Equality and Human Rights Commission- non-departmental public body in England and Wales, established by the Equality Act 2006 with responsibility for the promotion and enforcement of equality and non-discrimination laws

A trans man who is a biological female probably doesn’t need ivf - just sex during a fertile period.

I think this would mean egg collection & storage, some anticipate surrogacy There are quite a lot of youtube videos with this being discussed:

I think this would mean egg collection & storage, some anticipate surrogacy

"But it isn’t realistic to expect a child to want to be able to have their own children, so it’s up to the parents to say ‘we need to preserve that option for them’ so that, when they get to an age when they do want to start thinking about it, at least then they have the choice"

So a child undergoing hormone treatment for GD isn't able to fully comprehend the implications of what they're doing? And the decision needs to be taken for them to think about fertility protection? But apparently they are competent enough to make a decision about the hormone treatment in the first place?

How, in any way possible when logic is involved, is that not utterly batshit crazy?

So a child undergoing hormone treatment for GD isn't able to fully comprehend the implications of what they're doing? And the decision needs to be taken for them to think about fertility protection? But apparently they are competent enough to make a decision about the hormone treatment in the first place?

How, in any way possible when logic is involved, is that not utterly batshit crazy?

Erm, no, not batshit crazy because no one identifies it as batshit crazy.

But yes. Crazy to want your own friends, music, family....

I occasionally lurk on these boards not outright gender critical, just me sitting here with my own views sort of thing. Anyway what's just hit me is, is this what this is all about? Is the reason this whole agenda getting such attention, the government bending over backwards to accommodate etc, is it all to crucify the NHS?

Where will this all end?

bluescreen your post doesn't make sense. Can you explain?

That is one goal, to switch to a corporate medicine model. There is also the rolling back of women's rights, and the legalization of pornstitution as goals.

I must be thick because I'm not understanding this at all. So young boys transing to female need the option to preserve sperm? Should be fairly simple unless they have been on puberty blockers. We know for eg Jazz Jennings had underdeveloped equipment courtesy of puberty blockers and no sexual urges. So presumably not possible to provide that sperm sample. Nor would it be, surely, before the puberty blockers at age 11 or so because they haven't been through puberty yet.
Conversely young women transing to men? Well I don't see how you can do egg collection prior to puberty and it would be shocking treatment to put a child through. Puberty blockers presumably knock off the option after.
That leaves slightly older teenagers planning to go on T. I think going through the egg collection treatment would be extremely triggering for them. The hormones to stimulate egg production, transvaginal scans for monitoring and retrieval.
What am I missing?

Sunday Times article as well:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-must-offer-fertility-services-to-trans-patients-fqqlsnflz?shareToken=8a142908af80efd7fcf2624a71ceb5e1

I also work in the NHS. We do as told, we don't just set policies and commission services willy nilly. My prediction is that this will have a devastating affect on the fertility services available full stop. Waits are long and services more limited as it is. This will shove it over the edge. Things like this are never funded centrally and regardless of that we are at a point where we don't have the manpower either. A lot of medics are working extra hours to plough through waiting lists and there is only so much time in a day.

Additionally, as others have mentioned, fertility treatment on the NHS is not super well-organized for anyone, whether you are trans or not.

NHS fertility services are already severely rationed, with age limits, cycle restrictions and exclusion criteria. Success rates are also highly variable and not guaranteed. We have friends who moved across the country to a region where they would be eligible for 3 cycles if IVF (limited to 1 here, stricter age criteria too). I know another couple who had no luck after 10 cycles, which all but bankrupted them. Why on Earth are we allowing these young people to be sterilised? When I think about the hoops DH & I had to jump through to get DH’s vasectomy, checking we understood the implications etc (after 2 kids!), it amazes me how casually we are sterilising trans children.

I agree that this will be the end of all fertility services.