Spy cans - South Korea - BBC today

[NothingOnTellyAgain]

article

Women have marched and will march again for "My life is not your porn".

The women in the article say it is inevitable that this will spread around the world and I agree with them.

What can be done - what should be done?

I know that there are obvious points to make around access to spaces where women and girls are getting undressed etc and I'm not the thread police :D but it would be great if we could put the focus on the men who commit this crime and the women (and smaller number of men) who are victims.

In particular, why do these "kinks" seem to be so much more prevalent amongst men? If women ruled the world would be be putting spy cams in to watch men taking a shit? (I know what my feelings are on that!).

Is it nature or nurture?

An WHY all over the world are women still seenby men as objects put their for their sexual entertainment? I mean who exactly the fuck do these men think they are? It's a vile crime.

Then in the UK we have people (usually men) when we try to make upskirting a crime saying what's the issue / wear more clothes. This is a universal one - it's a problem with men (namalt) not with a particular country etc in my view.

The news that women have committed suicide over this - do they care? We know with revenge "porn" this is sometimes the desired outcome. What proportion just want to get their jollies and don't think of the victim, and how many do think of the victim and that makes it all the sweeter?

The cameras are now easy to buy online and are hidden in everyday objects such as coat hooks and toilet brushes. They are easily destroyed with a red laser pointer.

Useful links re the South Korean Marches

m.youtube.com/watch?v=f1X3bO2QVqU - Peach Yoghurt's mirror of a video about the last march

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/06/12/south-korean-women-rise-interview-nayoung-kim/ - interview with Nayoung Kim, activist

www.koreaexpose.com/south-koreas-biggest-womens-protest-in-history-is-against-spycam-porn/ - write up of second rally 9/6/18

www.koreaexpose.com/south-korea-spycam-porn-epidemic/ - write up of first rally 19/5/18

My forums search skills aren't up to scratch, it seems, but I'm pretty sure Haxxor posted a thread on cams and what to look for recently.

Relentless targeting of women - women being alone or in private is unacceptable to some men. Grim stuff

Cannot imagine anything less erotic than a camera in the men’s loos but there you go...

I wonder if we will ever see the day when men will finally leave women the fuck alone!

What they are getting off on, realistically, is not what it appears on the surface.

If they want to see women with no clothes on doing pretty much anthing it is all right there on the web already.

This fetish revolves around the non consent of women.
As such it needs to be seen for what it is - an activity on the range of sexual offences that involve violating women's boundaries (non consent) and is part of a group of crimes that are known to frequently escalate.

Just realised the "invisibilising" language I used there. The crimes don't escalate - I lost the agent! The men committing these types of crimes tend to escalate in their offending.

"I wonder if we will ever see the day when men will finally leave women the fuck alone!"

That would be fucking awesome :)

I watched a youtube video about the Korean march, and a comment below by a woman said she couldn't leave the house without a tube of vaseline/equivalent to cover the cameras. Wherever she went, she found them.

This is appalling. But that video of the march! Those women made me want to stand up and shout with them! I cried and cheered when they were shaving their heads.

Women are amazing.

This voyeurism is another of the crimes against women and girls whose rapid expansion has been enabled by cyberspace, the unfettered technology that enables male violence plus an inept police and justice system. The only way to crack down on this is to jail these guys, both offenders and the platform owners - but that requires law enforcement across the web and it's not there in any shape or form.

Great these women are taking to the streets as we will need to before long. I note there was no mention of safeguarding and single-sex segregation in the BBC article - too many woke journalists there to state the truth

Bump

Yes, the head shaving got me too.

I still can't find that flipping thread on cameras, the search function here has me cross-eyed.

And for those who say "but the spy cam thing could never happen here":

www.tes.com/news/banned-teacher-who-filmed-under-girls-clothes

In a primary school.

Is there a resource anywhere to show us how to spot cameras? It sounds like some are very well hidden if you're not looking for them.

This is shit. Its bad enough that as a female I have to be aware of what's going on around me when I'm in public. In ladies loos and changing rooms, I ought to be able to relax my vigilance. These bastards are making me a prisoner in plain view and I'm being told to shut up about it.

sociopath that would be usful but BUT

Why are we continually put in situations where we need to "protect ourselves" from the appalling actions of men? Don't wear a short skirt, don't wear a jalter neck, don't walk that way home, don't wak after dark, don't accept a drink, wear nail varnish to see if you've been spiked +++ and now to add to the list, buy some kind of james bond spycam for you and your daughters and use it every time you go to the bog.

Men need to sto with this shit I am sick to the back teeth of it. And so are all other women all over the world.

What's the matter with them? Voyeurism, exposure, catcalling, stalking, rape, csa. etc etc. Many "normal" men feel free to attack/ send explicit messages to prominent women online.

The entitlement and the failure to really understand that we are people and not objects runs through the whole of society and all of these behaviours are on a spectrum.

Why can't we just deal with this FFS. Why do so many normal people feel that boys will be boys and women and girls need to deal?

"The entitlement and the failure to really understand that we are people and not objects runs through the whole of society"

Plus of course a lot of men (and society) are on a scale of

Thinking women are inferior
Thinking women should "know their place"
Actively disliking women
Actively hating women

Oh I agree Nothingontellyagain

I don't see WHY we should have to change the way we behave or live our lives, just because a sector of the other half of the population are completely inhuman.

But we do. I have absolutely no idea why certain sectors of the male population behave like this. I expect there will be some explanation (or rather, many explanations as there are probably as many reasons as there are offenders) but all I can do is protect myself. I can't cure them. I didn't raise any children, so I can't point the finger and say "this is where you all went wrong". It's massive - there are probably a million different factors. Sometimes there's only one - the man in question is simply sub-human. Lower than an animal.

So all I can do is find out how best to protect myself, how to attack back when attacked (yes, I'm prepared to go that far if need be). It's either that, or stay at home whilst the lunatics take over the asylum. I don't see any other way....

yes certainly I would never advocate that women and girls don't do anything -

I just feel that whatever we do, men find a way around it.
That a lot of it is "magical thinking" (these actions will protect me) because the truth - that it could happen to anyone and it's down to luck - is too unpleasant to face.
That a lot of it then simply restricts our lives for no good reason.

We are constantly reminded that men are at greater risk of attack (although the violent crime stats that are used for this leave out sex related crimes!) and yet they are not bombarded with a constant stream of "advice" that essentially just makes them feel like prey the whole time. Young men as we are constantly told are way more risk taking than young women (again I question this but it's for another thread!) - are there massive posters up in tube stations depicting them being raped, murdered, etc? No there bloody well aren't.

An update from Seoul:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-45388759?__twitter_impression=true

Toilets will now be checked daily for spy cameras rather than the current monthly checks. If anyone spots a follow up to this in the next few months, do post it, it's worth tracking to see if it has an impact.

Not Korea but upskirting in UK - here discussed as an example of misogyny in Guardian item about MPs discussing whether to make online harassment and the ilk examples of hate crime misogyny: MPs to decide whether to make misogyny a hate crime

Creasy said: “Upskirting is a classic example of a crime in which misogyny is motivating the offence. We protect women in the workplace from discrimination on grounds of their sex, but not in the courtroom – with upskirting, street harassment, sexually based violence and abuse a part of life for so many it’s time to learn from where misogyny has been treated as a form of hate crime and end this gap.”

Mentions the Nottinghamshire Police trial of making misogyny a hate crime.

That's very interesting, will try to look out for it on Wednesday then. I see the Guardian splatters "gender" rather than sex all over that article, though