"Obsession with gender identity goes too far -Times article"

[TimeLady]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/obsession-with-gender-identity-goes-too-far-vjcr30g8t

by Nigel Biggar, regius professor of moral and pastoral theology at the University of Oxford

Excellent article. His point about national identity made me think that in so much today, we are being asked to "pick a side" (all those referenda!) and are reduced to a narrowing set of criteria based on artificial or historical constructs. Yet the one area in human lives which is binary - sex - we are told is illusory. And then, having supposedly rejected the constraints of biology, these individuals conform to narrow outmoded expressions of gender and are unable to see that by picking a miniscule spot on their rainbow spectrum and doggedly reinforcing all the stereotypes, they are the worst sort of conservative and not the freedom warriors they clearly imagine themselves to be.

Prof. Biggar caused outrage amongst the 'woke' a little while ago with his comments on colonialism

cherwell.org/2018/01/08/professor-biggar-should-be-allowed-to-speak-even-if-we-disagree/

I hope he will encourage other academics to speak out too. They need to challenge the hive mentality.

Great article... thoughtful and compassionate but firm.

The first comment almost certainly is from one of the Mumsnet TRAs.

"but all they want is respect" NOPE.

We offered them respect, they demanded capitulation

"they don't want any more than respect" says the comment.

Ha ha ha, what a big fat lie.

I also wondered about the lack of comments but they're now coming through. I think a moderator had this on their to-do list and is only now going through the comments to see which can go up.

Not sure where to post but there's a piece in the guardian today about the Freemasons allowing women in but only if they were men before. I'm pretty new to all this but surely any trans women would refuse to join since they are women?

Bicylcle you could post that on the thread about the Masons from yesterday?

I'm not sure I know to www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/01/freemasons-to-admit-women-but-only-if-they-first-joined-as-men

See if it works.

Oops sorry mis read your post. I will go away now

When TRAs start spouting words like "kink opression" wrt the recent NUS officer debacle, how can anyone take this movement seriously?

It'll be interesting if the tabloids pick up on terminology like kink oppression. They'll have a field day.

Excellent writing. And I'm glad to see more academics starting to speak out about this. Universities are pretty intolerable places to work at the moment for various reasons, not least the no-platforming, no-debate mentality of those very people who should be willing to exercise their minds in a bit of critical thinking. I count certain academics within that category, not just students.

It'll be interesting if the tabloids pick up on terminology like kink oppression. They'll have a field day.

Especially when it becomes clear that the "oppression" is saying that sexual kinks need to be contained within the private sphere and should not be performed in public.

It'll be interesting if the tabloids pick up on terminology like kink oppression. They'll have a field day.

And the quickest way to a right wing backlash.

I'm getting a bit worried, tbh.

No one can deny your right to look in the mirror and see a real woman; but you cannot control what other people see.

I liked the comment above in comments

Hmm... I'm not so impressed with Biggar's piece because of his conclusion, which is basically: why should we care? It doesn't matter; other people have real problems.

Frankly, I've seen better analysis here on FWR. Since the current context of media debate about trans identity is the prospect of changes to legislation, clearly it does matter.

Biggar has invoked feminism but hasn't engaged at all with any of the questions that radical feminists are asking about sex and gender. I'd be interested in his response to concerns about women's political representation, or participation in sport, but apparently it didn't occur to him that women are real people with real problems who might take a view on this topic.

For sure, the elderly in Britain and people in Syria deserve our concern, but what about women and girls - particularly when it comes to debates about trans identities? I think Biggar could have done better.

I thought the end of the piece struck a duff note too but I welcome the piece all the same. We need gender critical comments coming from as many diverse sources as possible. That's the way for it to come to the attention of the public. Once the public start asking questions, this will help the gender critical cause considerably.

I think his conclusion is problematic too - and is what has allowed all this to get so far. Men, in particular, think that trans identity doesn’t really matter, so wave through legislation etc to throw a sop to the activists, when in fact the whole problem is that gender identity does matter if it means taking rights away from women as a sex. Of course that matters more to women than it does to men, even male philosophers.

Hmm... I'm not so impressed with Biggar's piece because of his conclusion, which is basically: why should we care? It doesn't matter; other people have real problems

I was not sure how to read that. I wasn't sure if he was saying that we should not care what people identify as or we should not care enough to waste money in campaigns to provide support ...

Meanwhile, I looked up the difference between bi-gender and inter-gender and found something similar but different ...

www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-genderfluid-and-bigender

"Bi-gender is a specific identity under the nonbinary umbrella, someone who feels an ongoing need to express both male and female personas. Non-fluid bi-gender people can choose the most opportune time to present as male or female. Some bi-gender people might also identify as a crossdresser, drag queen, or drag king, and be completely comfortable in that scene.

NOTE: A crossdresser, drag queen or drag king, can be cisgender, trans woman, trans man, bi-gender, genderfluid, etc. Crossdressing is simply an activity. A crossdresser is simply someone who enjoys crossdressing enough, to see it as part of their identity.

Someone who likes femme name and female pronouns when dressed as a woman, and male name and pronouns when dressed as a man, is one sign of a bi-gender identity. To contrast, if that same bi-gender person is also genderfluid, their pronoun has switched INSIDE THEM BEFORE they even decide what to wear." (it continues ...)

Sane, articulate, assured. That's the company I want to be in.

Non-fluid bi-gender people can choose the most opportune time to present as male or female

You don't say...

^ I shouldn't keep reading. I've just found an answer along the lines of "I found out I was bi-gender last week and now I am researching the internet for articles .... AAAAARGHHHHHHH!"