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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The "science" behind manspreading.

45 replies

IDontEatFriedTurtle · 29/07/2018 14:05

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/manspreading-scientific-explanation-revealed-men-behaviour-public-transport-etiquette-a7862771.html

An article from last year. Male scientist mansplains manspreading to the female population and basically "because pelvis" is the answer.

Except, I as a human female find it far more comfortable to manspread too. I don't because it is anti social and because I was taught almost from birth that it wasn't lady like to sit like that and actually inappropriate. Male science man seems unaware totally of the fact that we tell little girls to set with their legs closed.

For me the "lady like" way to cross one's legs is hugely uncomfortable. I didn't do it because my pelvis was arranged that way, I did it because I was told it was the correct way to sit for a girl. Sitting knees together is just as bad.

OP posts:
REOLay · 29/07/2018 23:43

I ma'am spread at every opportunity. It's very satisfying, especially when it involves retaking a space that's been colonised by a man spreader.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 30/07/2018 10:05

I only manspread on Fridays.

But I'm under 5ft so it's not that effective.

hilbobaggins · 30/07/2018 10:30

I dip into the feminism board from time to time and have found it incredibly helpful and eye-opening in terms of explaining trans issues and how they effect women.

This kind of conversation though, I don’t understand at all. “Mansplaining” and “manspreading” seem to me to be incredibly sexist terms that set out to demean and humiliate. Can anyone explain why “mansplaining” is acceptable but the equivalent (something like “women cluck like a bunch of hens”) isn’t?

Honestly this is the kind of thing that puts me right off identifying myself as a feminist. So maybe men hold themselves in a way that takes up a bit more space in the world. So what? Why can’t we just make the decision to speak up, say something, and take up a bit more space in the world ourselves?

ErrolTheDragon · 30/07/2018 10:49

Why can’t we just make the decision to speak up, say something, and take up a bit more space in the world ourselves?

That's exactly what some of us do, or try to do. And one of the 'say something's ' is that, if there's a common behaviour observed, we can comment on it. In both 'mainsplaining' and 'manspreading', I really don't think the aim is to demean or humiliate - just to nudge people into noticing it. Hopefully if decent blokes then catch themselves doing these things they will have the self awareness to realise they're taking more than their fair share of space and air time and adjust their behaviours accordingly.

SlartiAardvark · 30/07/2018 10:56

It is a public display of male dominance.

Except women do it too.

I find it physically uncomfortable to sit with my legs under me - my OH does it all the time. I like to sit with my legs open, it's comfortable.

When I can't do that (on trains etc) I'll cross my legs at the ankle, which isn't particularly comfortable.

I could cross my legs one over the other, because although that takes up as much room as open legs it seems to enrage women less.....

The "science" behind manspreading.
SlartiAardvark · 30/07/2018 10:58

In both 'mainsplaining' and 'manspreading', I really don't think the aim is to demean or humiliate

I'd disagree there. I think you'd get pretty narked if every time you asked someone to do something they referred to it as "nagging".

TransExclusionaryMRA · 30/07/2018 11:35

I dunno I think manspreading does happen, but I’ll come across a woman whose shopping bags take up a shop extra space, and don’t get me started on women with pushchairs (and yes it is usually women!) taking up disabled spaces with their buggies on public transport. Just dig out a few threads on mumsent and you’ll find an entitled few who seem to think they are entitled to use disabled spaces.

It’s just generally very bad social etiquette, and there are a tonne of ill mannered and rude people at large in the world. The difference is when men are rude there is a legion feminists pointing at the behaviour as being symptomatic of wider trends of the misogyny between men and women.

This is only anecdotal but my biggest experience of rudeness in public spaces was when I worked retail. I’d even venture that I came across way more rude female customers than male. Although I have the wit to realize given that women are responsible for more purchasing decisions than men I’m more likely to be exposed to greater numbers of female consumers than men.

In addition they are just as likely to be rude to female colleagues (and more than one has been reduced to tears from a rude female customer!). So I wouldn’t point to any underlying misandrist trends from my experiences.

On the topic of mansplaining I do think that’s a thing, but it’s not as clear cut as that a certain type of man (and sometimes woman), has such a colossal case of unwarranted case of self importance they like to hold court on a selection of topics, even ones they know less about. Thing is that isn’t behaviour that’s reserved exclusively for women. A man like that is just as likely to mansplain to me, another man as they are a woman. Yes it’s tiresome, but to then hear I’m also somehow morally responsible for these men just because as an accident of birth I happen to share the same chromosomes is patently absurd.

This is where class analysis falls flat on it’s face. As there is no meaningful way to impose a collective responsibility from a group onto an individual. Also some feminists are quick to reach for accusations of mansplaining when they are losing an argument, which leads to all manner of spectacular hilarity as if the man points out that mansplaining is specifically related to cases of explaining something blindly to somebody already expert in the subject, then they just get accused of mansplaining mansplaining, even if the original accusation was incorrectly applied!

I take no pleasure in pointing this out as I’m seeing a lot of feminists hoisted by their own petard. As now they are being boxed in by the precise same rhetorical tricks they’ll use on their idealogical opponents only this time it’s the radical trans lobby claiming greater oppressed status. A different ‘lived experience’ that nobody else can challenge. It would be funny if it wasn’t putting real women in harms way with the erosion of women’s spaces, prisons etc.

This isn’t a specific to feminism problem either. Tonnes of
Men are swept up into this identity politics maelstrom of late. I used to be quite enamoured with feminism, and in some ways I still am when it comes to literary and historical analysis. A female perspective is crucial (and just as much relative to a male one) on just about any topic, but I’ve learned a female perspective isn’t necessarily always a feminist one.

AssassinatedBeauty · 30/07/2018 11:57

I don't think it's unreasonable to draw men's attention to when they might take up more than their fair share of space in a public place. If they're not doing it consciously then any decent man would think about it for a moment and realise they'd been lax in their consideration for others.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/07/2018 12:34

I've been known to say "they're not that big" to particularly irritating manspreaders.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/07/2018 12:41

A man like that is just as likely to mansplain to me, another man as they are a woman

That may well be your perception but it may not be entirely accurate. Factor in the well known phenomenon of men tending to interrupt and talk over women....

HotRocker · 30/07/2018 12:44

I shove em and tell em to budge up. I have no problem being rude to rude people. Same with people who put bags on seats, or who sit on the aisle seat blocking the available window seat. Same goes for members of both sexes, if they are obstructing or making it uncomfortable I bloody well tell em. Also buggies in disabled spaces, if someone with a buggy gets on and asked me to move I refuse. I have a genuine disability that means I’m entitled to that space, so they can jolly well take their six bags of shopping off the buggy and fold it down. If they’ve got one of those big tanks that doesn’t fold up easily tough shit, they should have picked a more appropriate buggy for their needs, not my problem. I’ve been sworn at and threatened and allsorts over the buggy thing, some people have got really nasty, women, in general. I’ve learnt to be pretty hard faced though, so I just let them get on with it, and people normally come out on my side. Picking on disabled people doesn’t generally make one look good.

HotRocker · 30/07/2018 12:48

When I got married, just as we were all sitting round silently waiting for the man speeches to start, my dad shouted across the room to me to close my legs. I’ve never forgiven him for that little humiliation, and I’ve never learned to close my legs either. If there is something more offensive about the crotch of my trousers than yours, don’t look.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 30/07/2018 12:48

I fill my space up while looking at my phone / book. Never while looking at the manspreader because then I'd be acknowledging their presence.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 30/07/2018 12:57

I am a bloke and I sit with my knees about 6 - 8 inches apart, I don't aim for that distance apart, it seems to be my naturally comfortable position. I am always mindful that I do not encroach into other peoples personal space and if on busy public transport I will sit with my knees tight together even though does squash my bollocks a bit.

Most of the twats I see with their legs spread at 90+ degrees tend to be the young wannabe 'gangsta' types trying to make selfish statement.

SlartiAardvark · 30/07/2018 13:12

Most of the twats I see with their legs spread at 90+ degrees tend to be the young wannabe 'gangsta' types trying to make selfish statement.

And half the time they're waiting for someone to remark on it so they can start on them....

EmpressOfSpartacus · 30/07/2018 13:35

And half the time they're waiting for someone to remark on it so they can start on them....

Which is exactly why I make myself comfortable while looking in the opposite direction...

IDontEatFriedTurtle · 30/07/2018 14:47

but I’ll come across a woman whose shopping bags take up a shop extra space, and don’t get me started on women with pushchairs (and yes it is usually women!) taking up disabled spaces with their buggies on public transport

I'm sure you're a clever enough chap to work out why that is? Or why it is that the the bus companies provide only one space for disabled people and one space for prams and expect those two groups to battle it out rather than providing for both as they have done for able bodied men?

Thank you for proving mansplaining exists though Grin

OP posts:
Vickyyyy · 30/07/2018 15:32

Regardless of how personally comfortable it is for men, they should not do it in situations where it means they invade on someone elses space tbh.
Mind I quite enjoy manspreaders recently ever since I started my game of seeing who would give up first in a battle of wills between me and the ignorant arsehole beside me. So far, its always them that give up, usually with hugely exaggerated sighing and stropping. Mind I am a bit wary of doing it to some totally violent wanker, so sometimes think I should not do it at all, but I cannot help that defiant side of me tbh

My husband is 6ft 5, and he manages not to spread his legs in cramped spaces.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 30/07/2018 15:43

Did anyone ever notice how much less likely men are to manspread when they're sitting next to each other?

TransplantsArePlants · 30/07/2018 16:56

Empress

Yes. I've noticed that. That would be icky man-touching.

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