Keeping Women Safe

[tmg20]

Si, I am doing some research on how women can keep themselves safe from attack. Scenario: you are on a night out, you are maybe a little drunk, having visited a bar, or as in the news recently you find yourself dragged into a car with some undesirable men, or you visit a house or hotel room against your better judgement not expecting to be attacked.
What is the best thing to be carrying? It needs to be small, legal and inconspicuous. Is there a case for developing a very pungent spray (skunks spray a chemical for defence that can easily be manufactured in the home ) , do you carry a small bottle of perfume? In a one-on-one or two or more on one, how do you defend yourself? I'm thinking - smell. Police use both noise and smell for crowd control. Your thoughts (politely) please. However, far-fetched, this is a

problem that keeps mothers of female children awake at night.

Why are you doing this "research"?

You can't. A motivated violent attacker will win. Stop moving the blame onto women.

Reminds me a bit of when Ross asked the women's self-defence teacher how best to attack women...

I think a full deconstruction of the patriarchal society we live in with the end goal of building a society where men are not socialised from birth to treat women like chattels to fuck would be helpful. However this probably won’t fit in a handbag.

The sad truth is - There is no device or weapon that would help - a weapon is more likely to be used on you and against you , and a man, even a weaker man, is capable of overpowering most women.

All the advice on walking alone etc just shifts the blame. Teach men not to rape, and have decent sentences for men who do, along with societal opprobrium.

The times I’ve been attacked I’ve managed to get one good hard strike in to get them to loosen a grip then I’ve run as fast as i possibly could. I wouldn’t stand a chance against a man who didn’t let go. Even then I’m aware I was very lucky they let go and it wouldn’t have been my fault if they didn’t.

I woke up to find my then-boyfriend had rolled me onto my back, climbed on, and penetrated me unlubricated. That rape left me with a lifelong 100% chance of a post-coital bladder infections if I have sex after about 7pm (peeing once isn't enough, I have to pee several times before I sleep, this is why I lost my shit when Greer tried to say that rape doesn't really affect women physically). A weapon would not have helped me then.

Given that 50% of rapes are committed by the victim's current or former partner and another 30% by someone she knows, and some 60-odd percent of rapes are in the home or car of the victim or attacker, you've not understood the nature of the threat women face.

All the things sold to women to prevent rape are intrinsically harmful because they perpetuate the idea that women are responsible for rape. In terms of function, they are all either useless or outright dangerous to the woman involved.

• The Rapex, an internally-barbed vaginal sheath intended to injure a rapist's penis and require surgical removal to allow detection of the assailant when he seeks medical help: men who are wise to its existence will force the victim's fingers into her vagina to test for it. Men who get it stuck on their dicks are likely to take out their pain and frustration on the victim through battering or murder.
• Drug testing kits and drug testing nail varnish: doesn't detect the number one date rape drug, which is shots of vodka slipped into the victim's drink.
• Ar Wear, ridiculous lockable cut-proof shorts: if the wearer forgets the combination, she can't take them off. If the wearer becomes unconscious and needs emergency medical care, the medical staff can't remove nor cut off the shorts to prep her for surgery or catheterise her. A would-be rapist will beat her out of frustration or to force her into unlocking the shorts, or might injure her when trying to cut them off her or forcibly pull them down. And they will pull down anyway if you are the wrong body shape for them or habe too much compressable fat on your hips, but hey, who cares whether fat women are raped. [annoyed]
• Any weapon: can be taken from the victim and used against her.
• Personal alarms: does anyone ever actually respond to a car alarm going off? Personal alarms sound like car alarms. If alarm is the type where the pin is attached to your bag and the alarm comes away, the attacker can stamp on the dropped alarm to destroy it. If the alarm remains attached to the bag and the pin comes away, the attacker might attack the wearer to force her to reinsert the pin or try to break the alarm.

Lastly, patriarchal capitalism is exemplified by monetising women's fear of rape. Which, coming back to self-id, is what the YHA have done when telling women to book a single room if we are bothered about males in the women's dorms.

There is no way women can keep themselves safe, because there are an unlimited number of ways we can be attacked. Its not far fetched, its happened to many of us.
It is illegal for us to carry an offensive weapon.

Stop putting the responsibility on to women who are just going about their lawful business.

The only element necessary is being in proximity to a rapist or murderer or kidnapper.
They do not come with labels on their forehead.
Martial art helps girls build confidence, and learn their own strengths and limits. Failing that, a very large dog.

Failing that, a very large dog.

Which you can't take with you to a lot of places. Coincidence? I suspect not. I note that pubs where people go for purposes other than getting laid often let dogs in, but urban bars where men go to find casual partners don't let dogs in. It's almost like the business model relies on the women being as unable to deter male advances as possible.

Should your faithful canine attack your attacker, it risks being forcibly euthanised. I'm not a dog person, but if I had a choice between being raped again and risk having my cat forcibly euthanised, I'd take the rape. I imagine that there will be dog custodians out there who will feel the same about their dogs as I do about my cat.

Expecting our beloved pets to be canine shields and suggesting women get dogs they may not actually want to be canine shields (which thebewilderness was not suggesting, but I've heard it suggested offline in the past) is taking the blame away from men who rape.

Whatever women do to prevent rape, men will up the ante to overcome it. Carrying a weapon, martial arts... even staying in at home - there'd be a heck of a lot more break-in rapes. These things don't actually prevent rape, they just shift the victimisation to the next woman. It doesn't collectively solve the problem - men as a class bear 100% of the moral responsibility.

I know from bitter experience the attacker tends to have the element of surprise and surprise and over power you they will. If you do feel threatened and alone with no get out then keys in your hand to stab into attackers face if need be or if grabbed your heel down their shin hard, enrolling in a self defence class is another good starting point, My martial arts instructor used to teach women's self defence. I hope this doesn't sound victim blaming just self defence classes helped me rebuild my confidence for stepping out again.

Martial art helps girls build confidence, and learn their own strengths and limits.

It does, yes, - I've done some form of martial arts virtually all my life, including with a wide range of weaponry as well as unarmed. I'm a lot faster and fitter than you'd expect for a fat forty-odd and I walk more unfearingly than most. But the guiding principle is to hit and run away if you're attacked outside the dojo - my instructors have emphasised this in all disciplines. Sport martial arts will not save you. My current club is non-contact until you reach the upper grades and everyone is required to use safety padding/mouth guards etc for sparring. That's pretty much useless on the street. Train hard enough and you might be lucky enough to have muscle memory take over in a fight. It's not certain.

The biggest benefit for us as a family is belonging to a club with a wide range of instructors, female and male, of all shapes and ages. My girls have role models who take no shit, and they see boys and men respect and defer to experienced women at every session.

The only thing that will stop rape is men not raping.

I think a full deconstruction of the patriarchal society we live in with the end goal of building a society where men are not socialised from birth to treat women like chattels to fuck would be helpful.

^^ this.

As a teenager we had an amazing woman come in to give us a personal safety talk. She pretended to attack us, asked us what we would do, we all said fight she then revealed she had a foot long knife up her sleeve... there is no spray that would help with that.
She said you think you will resist & shout when they try to rape you but if you can speak at all you will say please dont kill me.

It's men that need to be trained- trained not to rape.

Put a curfew on all men plus sequester their wealth, until they work out how to contain themselves and their class violence

As someone with a teenage daughter- a student living away from home - I think I can summarise what my DH has advised her to carry as: 'mistrust of men until they've earned trust'.

My DD took Krav Maga classes. The whole point was to break free, temporarily disable the attacker, then run like hell, rather than stay and fight.
She has rehearsed the moves until they’re automatic ( I have to be careful not to touch her unexpectedly from behind!), and she now is confident enough to intervene if she sees other women being hassled on the street, and also volunteers as security for feminist events.
It’s a very tough training - I think Israeli military originally - but it’s hugely empowering to know you can drop an attacker on the floor from any angle, or force him to drop a knife or other weapon. The bigger the bloke, the easier to use his weight and size as leverage against him.
It’s infuriating that this should be necessary in any society, but until men stop behaving like entitled savages towards women, it sadly is.

Put a curfew on all men

seems like an effective and proportionate solution

genuinely

I did used to do martial arts - and I was good at it. But that’s what I did, one punch, as hard as possible or one strike, to a vulnerable area then run like hell. Because I was well aware that I stood no chance if either of the men who’ve tried to drag me off the street had got a proper grip.

You cannot fight a man - you will almost always lose. All you can do is hope you can get them to let you go for a second and run.

The onus is always, and only ever, on men not to assault and rape.

Never trust men. No matter what they're wearing or how pretty their fucking nail varnish is.

Perfume etc would be useless. If someone's determined even pepper spray won't stop them.

I used to carry a pocket knife with me everywhere (except like through security). As a woman you're unlikely to ever be searched and if you are there's always an excuse for a smallish pocket knife (e.g. i was using it for a craft project and forgot i had it in my pocket when i left the house). Plus you'd be surprised how often it comes in handy.

Even better is to take a martial art class and be confident to set and enforce boundaries. A loud "BACK OFF" and a visible willingness to fight dirty is likely to be more effective than any secret weapon.

Not saying your average teen girl can take on a serial killer all on her own, but i think it's also naive and harmful to act like she's completely at the mercy of any boy who wants to harm her. There's a wide margin where a strong, confident, practiced woman can affect the outcome.

[And of course this doesn't address the root cause of male violence or reduce the rate of crime overall]

Perfume etc would be useless. If someone's determined even pepper spray won't stop them.

I used to carry a pocket knife with me everywhere (except like through security). As a woman you're unlikely to ever be searched and if you are there's always an excuse for a smallish pocket knife (e.g. i was using it for a craft project and forgot i had it in my pocket when i left the house). Plus you'd be surprised how often it comes in handy.

Even better is to take a martial art class and be confident to set and enforce boundaries. A loud "BACK OFF" and a visible willingness to fight dirty is likely to be more effective than any secret weapon.

Not saying your average teen girl can take on a serial killer all on her own, but i think it's also naive and harmful to act like she's completely at the mercy of any boy who wants to harm her. There's a wide margin where a strong, confident, practiced woman can affect the outcome.

[And of course this doesn't address the root cause of male violence or reduce the rate of crime overall]

Men have a sense of entitlement that needs to be challenged.
An education campaign in Kenya is having good results.

''Following the Your Moment of Truth classes, the percentage of boys who intervened when they witnessed a physical and sexual assault rose from 26% to 74%.
Boys were also found to be less likely to endorse myths about sexual assault and the incidence of rape by boyfriends and friends had fallen.
Among female participants in the project, there was a remarkable 51% decrease in the reported incidence of rape.''

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-43466365

That sounds like a brilliant programme, Upstart

But I thought there was no point educating men Upstart? That the only thing that can be done to avoid rape is for women to stop taking so many risks and acting provocatively?