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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Totalitarian tendencies in some trans activism?

23 replies

heresyandwitchcraft · 27/07/2018 10:11

Trans ideology - as propagated now - is developing tendencies that in my opinion border on totalitarian. This is my analysis, in the form of an overlong diatribe (apologies).
The summary is this:
Trans activism uses coercion, and poses an actual existential threat to females as it openly questions whether their biological sex is even real. It will not stop, because it has an ideology of gender identity that is unrooted in objective facts. It is therefore ravenous for outside validation – which means the ultimate goal is to take over the way we all see world. For this reason, I believe trans activists will endlessly attack females and radical feminists, because it cannot stand that this philosophical disagreement exists, one that actually acknowledges their deepest insecurity, and states the fundamental truth: that sex cannot be ignored. Until trans activists accept this, they will always be hostile.

We will go through some of the features of totalitarianism, and how they relate to current trans activism:

A revolutionary, exclusive, and apocalyptical ideology that announces the destruction of the old order—corrupt and compromised—and the birth of a radically new, purified, and muscular age. Antiliberal, anticonservative, and antipluralist, totalitarian ideology creates myths, catechisms, cults, festivities, and rituals designed to commemorate the destiny of the elect.

Trans ideology promises a revolution: to free people from their reproductive sex. It is exclusively meant for trans people, painting a world where we ignore sex completely as progressive and utopian. It goes against liberal principles (freedom of belief for all), and conservative ones (maintaining boundaries). Regarding apocalyptical tendencies, there does seem to be very little consideration for how the next generation of humans will be born-unless they are expecting others to do that labor. This is especially true if activistst are causing children to opt out of their reproductive ability and become sterile.
Trans theory has many set mantras, which must be accepted by everyone, even though they only really benefit trans activists:
Trans women are women. Except when they are definitely trans, so we can claim they are being horribly oppressed by those pesky females. The only experiences and identities that can be prioritized are those of trans people. Trans women can supposedly understand or speak about female issues, because "they had to work for their womanhood." There is no truth, no objectivity. There is your reality, and mine. I am this thing because I say so, you cannot question me. Trans needs are always number one, no matter what the costs. Failing to prioritize trans concerns above all others is hateful and transphobic. Trans activists will alter the rainbow flag to include their colors. They will re-write history to make important figures "trans." They will minimize systemic discrimination of other groups by adding trans to words like misogyny, so that "transmisogyny" will always be worse. They will co-opt concepts and identities wholesale - trans women who transitioned after fathering children in heterosexual marriages are "lesbians," and even get "periods" now. They will ritualistically tell everyone preferred pronouns and gender identifies. They will reserve the right to persecute anyone who does not comply with a trans identity. They also reserve the right to change this identity at any time. They will encourage young people to unquestioningly adopt trans ideology as a panacea for internal struggle.

A cellular, fluid, and hydralike political party structure that, particularly before the conquest of state power, devolves authority to local militants. As it gains recruits and fellow believers, the party takes on a mass character with a charismatic leader at its head claiming omniscience and infallibility, and demanding the unconditional personal devotion of the people.

Currently trans activism is in a loose cellular structure. It ranges from individuals online to much more established groups (like Mermaids, PinkNews and Stonewall). These groups are gaining more power. Despite their disparate nature, they are bound together, to a greater or lesser extent, by a similar philosophy: that "gender identity" must be prioritized above all else. These trans activists definitely will stick with each other. There is no clear leader right now, but we can already see the quasi-hero worship that goes on in trans activist circles, plus the staunch defense of representatives of trans ideology in the media. Woe betide you if you think that Caitlyn Jenner is actually a terrible person who killed a woman while driving... Trans activists are by default brave and in the right. Their feelings can never be proven wrong. You can't even risk talking openly about issues with a trans activist in case you accidentally engage in "hate speech."

A regime in which offices are deliberately duplicated and personnel are continually shuffled, so as to ensure chronic collegial rivalry and dependence on the adjudication of the one true leader. To the extent that legal instruments function at all, they do so as a legitimizing sham rather than a real brake on the untrammeled use of executive power. Indeed, the very notion of "the executive" is redundant since it presupposes a separation of powers anathema to a totalitarian regime.

There are no real constants in trans activism, except the knowledge that the trans activist point of view must always be correct. Their (subjective) version of truth is always the right one. If you are not fully on-board with the latest ideas of trans theory, you are to be punished. Even if you are transsexual. This happens on small scales all the time, and in more visible public displays (Germaine Greer). Anyone can be kicked out of political parties (Labour) simply for having an ideological disagreement. Within movements like liberal feminism and LGBT activism, uttering a dissenting point of view will get you banned. There is constant policing of thought, monitoring of behaviour. The ideology now wants to make legal changes, to ask that males can now legally become females, and vice-versa, simply because they say so. This will only enforce the trans activist point of view more strongly, allowing for harsher consequences for anyone who questions them. And let's consider how quickly their concepts shift. A few years ago, we would all have been fed the line that someone was "born into the wrong body." Now, we are being told that this idea is actually borderline transphobic, and that penises are female organs. The balance of power is always in favor of the vocal trans activists, because they are driving the agenda. This creates a sense of paranoia and permanent instability. The very nature of honoring a self-declared gender identity is unstable - because it can shift at a whim. These trans activists will claim to speak "for trans people" even though we know that they don't. Even within trans circles, I have seen people get hurt by trans theory’s ability to encourage "deceit." In one example, a trans woman once shared a story of a male sexual partner who had first claimed they were a female, then a trans woman, and then actually a man. The trans woman expressed regret that she had engaged in sexual acts with this male, because while she would have been okay with undertaking such activity with a female or trans person, she felt tricked that this person's internal identity turned out to be that of a man. Never mind that the male's body did not change at all with their gender identity. If someone who was not trans had expressed confusion about that male whose stated identity kept shifting, they would be pilloried for alleged transphobia. Especially gender critical feminists who would say that the example is merely of a male having intercourse with another male, and is most easily processed in those terms. Is this an example of how basing things on a fluid internal "gender identity" is helpful? Or does trans ideology make everything -even private acts- more difficult to interpret?

Monopolistic control of the mass media, "professional" organizations, and public art, and with it the formulation of a cliché-ridden language whose formulaic utterances are designed to impede ambivalence, nuance, and complexity.

This almost doesn't need to be elaborated on. Trans activists have taken over much of the public space and important spheres of influence - including schools and universities. They have economic power, an outsize media influence, and the government's ear in this debate. Very few people dare to question trans theory within "intellectual/liberal/elite" circles. Trans activists have smeared well-researched school information packs, completely dismissed concerns of women and parents, attempted to block public meetings, reprimanded journalists for covering difficult issues, stopped research into subjects like detransitioning and autogynephilia, banned dissenting viewpoints from platforms like Twitter and Facebook, and twisted the coverage of events like the lesbian protest at the London Pride Parade in 2018. Nonsensical slogans abound to reinforce their theory.Trans activists continue to try to stop people of being able to utter the truth: No. Trans women are not women, or else they would not be trans

A culture of martial solidarity in which violence and danger (of the trenches, the street fight, etc.) are ritually celebrated in party uniforms, metaphors ("storm troopers," "labor brigades"), and modes of address ("comrade"). Youth are a special audience for such a culture, but are expected to admire and emulate the "old fighters" of the revolution.

This is quite common in some corners of trans activism. See the masked, black-uniformed protests by members of some trans groups. See the glorification of violent imagery against women. See the website that documents the online vitriol associated with the slur that used to be a neutral(ish) acronym. See the "degenderettes" exhibition in San Francisco. See the "trans dykes" marching in the streets. See the actual violence against women being celebrated by trans activists, such as in the aftermath of the Hyde Park Corner assault.
This is not "defense." It's deliberately targeting women for violence simply for daring to have an opposing viewpoint. It is not opposing fascistic tactics, it is actively applauding them as long as they're used against the "bad women."

The pursuit and elimination not simply of active oppositionists but, and more distinctively, "objective enemies" or "enemies of the people"—that is, categories of people deemed guilty of wickedness in virtue of some ascribed quality such as race or descent. Crimes against the state need not have actually been committed by the person accused of them.

There is almost no barrier to entry to becoming an enemy of a trans activist anymore. All you have to do is be a female who does not identify as "trans" and say that trans people are different from those of the opposite sex. Sometimes maybe even just talk about biology. We all know what happens when you get labelled a hateful witch. You cannot come back from that label. I am fairly certain you can be guilty by association, simply for having ever spoken to a gender-critical person. We have seen that trans activists traditionally won't even speak to feminists in a sensible, public, way - refusing to appear on the same platforms as females who are critical of their ideology. This is not really because of the vicious feminists (Bindel has been polite to Fae on panels that I've seen them share), but I think it's because they would get so much backlash from their "own side." You can even be accused of being hateful just for saying that violence against women with opposing ideological views on transgender ideology IS NOT OKAY (signatories of the Morning Star letter).

You can also see this in how closely feminist spaces online are being observed by trans activists. Even the existence of such spaces is intolerable. Consider how this very feminist board has become a battleground for an endless number of trans activists trying to convince women that they are wrong for wanting to keep their own unique female identity. Think about how easily anyone, even if they've always been a trans ally, can be branded an enemy of the cause, simply for having a slightly wrong thought. You're probably considered a transphobic bigot just for reading this. It's a culture of fear, intimidation, and silence.

OP posts:
heresyandwitchcraft · 27/07/2018 10:11

Continual mobilization of the whole population through war, ceaseless campaigns, "struggles," or purges. Moreover, and notwithstanding ideological obeisance to ineluctable laws of history and race, totalitarian domination insists on febrile activity. The mercurial will of the leader and the people as a whole must constantly be exercised to produce miracles, combat backsliding, and accelerate the direction of the world toward its cataclysmic culmination.

Trans theory worships the sanctity of "gender identity," above all else. It has no qualms about re-writing history as it sees fit. Trans activists must acknowledge that sex exists in order to say that trans people need to transition, but will then deny sex in the same breath. They absolutely rely on gender stereotypes to explain their attractions to femininity and masculinity ("I knew I was a girl because I liked wearing dresses") but at the same time pretends that trans ideology helps people escape "gender" - instead of the truth which is that telling people to change their bodies because of their interests, actually re-enforces these gender roles...
Trans activists will never rest. Their ideology is inherently vulnerable to questioning as it rests purely on subjective statements. Trans ideology therefore needs continuous and complete external validation. Self-declared identities are easy to challenge - because there is so little material evidence for them, the defense has to be ferocious. This results in an "all-conquering" mindset, as trans activists must always keep collecting evidence in some form to support their (fundamentally untrue) claims. There will always be new territory for them to take - particularly linguistically and in re-defining words. First it was transgender woman, then transwoman, then trans woman (with a space), then woman, and now the battle is over female. Even specific anatomical terms like "vagina" are being re-purposed to suit trans activist needs.
What's even worse is that this means females are actually being dehumanised. Do women or females even exist? - asks trans activism. By denying the female sex, women are systematically denied their ability to assert themselves as an actual group. This makes hatred towards those females who disagree with trans ideology even easier, because trans activism says females have no real right to defend their own unique identity in the first place - as it doesn't even exist in their philosophy.

The battles will not be over, even if the proposed legal changes go though.

Free speech, reproductive health education, "mis-gendering," rights of access to single-sex spaces will still be fought.
The ultimate goal is to get the populace to agree that sex doesn't matter, or even that it doesn't exist. Because this cannot realistically be achieved, the war will be continuous. No matter how much the ideology is appeased, because that fundamental distinction between trans people and those of the opposite sex will always be present, the trans activists' cause will never be over if they continue in the vein of denying sex.

The pervasive use of terror to isolate, intimidate, and regiment all whom the regime deems menacing. Charged with this task are the secret police rather than the army, which typically possesses significantly fewer powers and less status than it does under a nontotalitarian dictatorship or "authoritarian" regime.

I believe we have already seen examples of trans activists using tactics shrouded in secrecy, paranoia, and aggression. The shadowy enforcement of the ideology is more terrifying than if they would outright defend their position. But by remaining covertly influential, they can minimize their own culpability and rewrite the narrative to suit their own needs. The threat of having groups infiltrated, being doxxed online, having your employment terminated, and being socially ostracized is overwhelming. You don’t know whom you can trust. Being labelled transphobic is a common fear, even if one is simply stating biological facts. Trans activists often act as a mob, collectively targeting the individuals accused of going against their ideology. We even see the inter-generational paranoia that has been fostered - parents are actually being referred to social services for questioning trans ideology and whether they should blindly let a child go down a path that will potentially render them sterile and permanently alter their body. I think such parents urging due diligence is right and justified.

Personally, I believe these tendencies are only going to get more extreme with time. Trans theory does not tolerate dissent or free debate. The demands of trans activists will get less and less in touch with reality, if left unchecked. We have already seen this go in only one direction - that of increasing demands and desire for control. The logical endpoint of their current philosophy of gender identity is complete denial of reproductive sex, and worship of individual, subjective, identities that cannot ever really be confirmed or even questioned.

If trans activists would just admit to the importance and reality of sex then we would be a lot further in promoting dialogue, fostering trans acceptance, and reaching practical solutions. This debate would be nowhere near this crazy if we could all just agree that trans people are trans, and can never really be the same as the opposite sex. Even trans people do know this! I don't understand why they keep denying this simple fact. The objective and the observable needs to be prioritized in formulating public policy - in this case sex must win. Trans activists' current beliefs around "gender identity" are fundamentally unproveable, and therefore their end-goal of legal self-ID is similar to trying to enshrine a religious assertion into law. Keep gate-keeping for those with diagnosed gender dysphoria who have physically transitioned, because at least it's some way to check genuine intent and whether a person actually has taken steps to bring their body and stated gender identity into alignment - it's the closest substitute we have to being able to check whether someone really has the gender identity they say they do. I promise you, any system that rests solely on a person's subjective statement is not a system we want. It will be exploited, it will be viciously defended at the expense of liberty ("the ends will justify the means") and it will have negative consequences.

Finally, I am aware that some trans activists will accuse feminists of the same tactics.
In my view, this is untrue.
By and large feminists are not trying to change how we describe actual reality, they are not denying basic biological facts, and they're not making society redefine basic concepts wholesale just to validate their feelings. They will respect other people's freedom of belief and self-definition, as long as it doesn't legally usurp the female identity or force females to agree with something they do not believe in at all. I have never seen a feminist engaging in the same kind of violent rhetoric that trans activists do or applauding violence against trans people. I've never seen feminists throw around t*y the way that trans activists will throw around c*t. If they did, I would report them myself. Feminists seem to have very little organized backing, a handful of brave voices in some sensible activist groups, media and academia. Just look at the 5 demands of WPUK & compare them to the Action for Trans Health Edinburgh manifesto... You tell me which one sounds more extremist.

Feminists are actually arguing for solid, objective concepts- without the reality of reproductive sex, not a single one of us would even be here. Feminists are, for the most part, just urging caution, common sense, and dialogue. They do just want to talk and reach a decent compromise. There are competing rights that must be balanced fairly. Most feminists don't much care what you want to wear, whether you change your name, or whether you internally feel "feminine." Many would try to be polite about pronouns and not deliberately rude. But a feminist absolutely has the right to defend her idea of what being a "woman" is, and definitely must be allowed to fight you about the definition of "female" - because that is her immutable, objectively grounded, sex-based identity.

Feminists would probably just like to make sure sex-based rights are completely protected, vulnerable children are safe from making unalterable life-changing decisions without adequate evidence and support, and female identities are respected in their own right. Many feminists are hoping to find reasonable compromises to support gender dysphoric people, with third space solutions as appropriate. If we could negotiate these adequately, then I think this board would largely drop trans issues - and get back to talking about things like abortion rights, female healthcare, male violence, prostitution.... All that other important stuff.

OP posts:
NotTerfNorCis · 27/07/2018 12:44

Good posts.

Charliethefeminist · 27/07/2018 13:16

Heresy I spent some time reading all this today and could not agree with you more. You have analysed it beautifully.

PyeWackets · 27/07/2018 14:13

Couldn't agree more.

What has hurt me the most is how quickly this has been adopted, even though three seconds of critical thought reveals the harm this causes to women and girls.

I am agog at how sexist our society is and how little people care for women and girls.

Charliethefeminist · 27/07/2018 14:21

Yes, how long and unresolved the women's fight is and how quickly this was leapt on. It seems the resentment over women starting to nibble away at male privilege was seething all the time, all those years when women thought they were getting somewhere, that seething male anger was just waiting for an outlet.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 27/07/2018 19:52

Yes, Charlie, the relish with which so many men have leapt on an excuse for
pouring out their misogynyy is all too obvious.

terryleather · 28/07/2018 12:06

Bumping as I found this a very thought provoking read and agree with so much of it heresy, thank you for writing.

the relish with which so many men have leapt on an excuse for pouring out their misogynyy is all too obvious

And this Prawn is the depressing cherry on the cake of this whole sorry shit show...

Ereshkigal · 28/07/2018 12:10

Really great analysis, Heresy.

BirthCanal · 28/07/2018 13:34

Great piece.

Taking things to their logical conclusion, could the end point just be that any man with any fleetingly feminine thought counts as a man? In other words all men are also women.

What are men then? Are all women also men? This is why manfriday was so successful I assume. They don't want that. Men are both men and women but men are speperate from women too. So women are a subset of men and excluded from areas of life by this.eg from sports because woman in the absence of man does not exist.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 14:03

Totalitarianism is a rhetorical term deployed to indicate "really repressive tyranny." By implication, some tyrannies or authoritarian regimes are more repressive than others and therefore merit a special designation. The obvious problem is that there is no obvious line to be drawn between them. Dictatorships use the same instruments of repression: secret police surveillance, torture, and propaganda. Which liberties they repress depend on their ideologies. At best there are differences in the intensity of repression. Totalitarians are notably intolerant of all who disagree with them.

✔️

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 14:04

Consistent with the Cold War construction of the term is the following: authoritarianism reflects a political ethos valuing the authority of the state over the individual freedoms of its citizens. A totalitarian state usually requires a defining ideology with which to justify its appropriation of the levers of power: extreme nationalism was the driving force behind Nazism; Marxism in the case of the Soviet Union; and a puritanical form of Islam in the case of a theocracy such as Iran. China offers an interesting example of a totalitarian regime that has abandoned the practical ramifications of its ideology, whilst retaining the power structures thus derived. Ba'athist regimes in Syria and Iraq have also been termed totalitarian. Under a totalitarian system it's often not enough for the people to not question the dictator in question but they are also expected to go a step further and openly endorse and espouse the regime's ideology. (Totalitarianism is sometimes described as "theocracy without a god", and many writers have remarked on the tendency of Communist ideology in particular to look, walk,and quack like religious faith.)

✔️

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 14:07

Such states are characterized by the extent of their subversion of the rule of law, with the police and judiciary acting as direct instruments of control and providing no meaningful check or balance upon the ruling elite. Media outlets are subordinated to faithful promotion of the defining ideology and, as the state matures, this tends to be reinforced with coordinated programmes of indoctrination within the education system. Dissent is often brutally repressed and extrajudicial executions are common.

✔️

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 14:10

Virtually all totalitarian regimes have scapegoats on which they blame all their problems, and any members of said scapegoated group can expect to face extremely intense repression on behalf of the state. Other common features include the fostering of a cult of personality around the head of state and rampant corruption due to the arbitrary enforcement of laws and statutes.

✔️ - women are the scapegoats

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 14:11

Hannah Arendt, among others, offers the concept of totalitarianism attempting to maintain a "fictitious world" in which the totalitarian ideology dominates perceptions of reality, with actual reality being irrelevant. (On this view, contempt for reality becomes a defining feature of totalitarianism, if not its basis; and the term post-truth thereby acquires extremely ominous implications.)

✔️

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 14:13

As a result, totalitarianism tends to be marked by heavy scapegoating of an imagined external enemy (in Communist terms, 'the international bourgeoisie') accompanied by violent hostility specifically targeting adherents of the ideology who deviate even in small ways, these to be identified as being as one with the imagined enemy (Mensheviks and non-Communist socialists being termed 'fascist' or 'fascist hirelings').

✔️

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 14:17

Extracts from Totalitarianism Rationalwiki

Thx OP - I have made the links previously with cults and psychopaths, but it wasn't until doing my own detailed comparison, prompted by your post, that I saw how far this has come.

It's very concerning how social media, money and malign interests are being weaponised to undermine democracy

arranfan · 28/07/2018 14:48

womanformallyknownaswoman - in addition to your above posts, I got a lot out of your previous thread about totalitarianism and the perils of obedience www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3287190-The-Perils-of-Obedience

R0wantrees · 28/07/2018 15:38

Despite their disparate nature, they are bound together, to a greater or lesser extent, by a similar philosophy: that "gender identity" must be prioritized above all else. These trans activists definitely will stick with each other.

I read this nGendr article earlier in the week:
BUILDING A POWERFUL TRANS LOBBY
Posted by Natalie Washington | Jan 6, 2018

(extract)
"What I’m trying to say here is that we’re stronger as a group. Sometimes we have to, as individuals, go through some personal stress and soul searching, and we have to face our own failures and prejudices and mistakes in order to grow and become more accepting of our friends and allies, but doing so makes us better and more effective. I’ve seen people saying that the public does not understand some of the issues in our community. That non-binary issues are too complex for the general public to understand, and that it turns them against us and so we shouldn’t address them. That we shouldn’t listen to trans sex workers because they’re a damaging stereotype and we shouldn’t be associated with them. None of this is what we should be doing. If people do not understand, that is precisely why we SHOULD address them. We should tackle these issues head on, and educate and win over these people as we go.

Times like now, when we’re all under attack, are when we should look to build bonds with each other, to understand each other better, to respect each other – not to attack each other in the hope that we’ll have fewer people to compete with for the scraps from the table." (continues)

ngendr.org.uk/2018/01/06/building-a-powerful-trans-lobby/

see also Brighton Trans Pride's statement last weekend:

transpridebrighton.org/archive/guidance-in-the-event-of-an-anti-trans-protest-at-trans-pride-brighton/

'GUIDANCE – IN THE EVENT OF AN ANTI-TRANS PROTEST AT TRANS PRIDE BRIGHTON
In the light of the recent anti-trans protest at Pride in London, and the current hostile atmosphere towards transgender people in the British media, we have produced the following reference guide on how to react if such an event happens at Trans Pride 2018. We do not have any specific threat or intelligence of any protests, and indeed we do not expect an anti-trans protest, however it makes sense to prepare. (continues)

In the event of an anti-trans protest, we ask you to please observe the following key requests (an explanation of the importance of this follows):

DO NOT approach the protestors
DO NOT speak to the protestors
DO NOT look at the protestors
DO NOT throw anything at the protestors (obviously!)
DO NOT point at, or even acknowledge the existence of the protestors!
And also:

DO follow the instructions and guidance of the march stewards and security
DO consider filming the situation if you feel threatened, or feel others are being threatened
DO keep your distance from the protestors, particularly if you are a trans person – they are likely to try to attempt to provoke or make it look like you’ve approached them
We accept that some of this this may come across as extreme and tone-policing, however the anti-trans protestors have a clearly demonstrated desire to portray transgender people as violent and abusive – a characterisation we all know to be absurd, however their previous activities show this is a common tactic. They will attempt to obtain photography and video which portrays trans people (trans women and assigned-male-at-birth nonbinary people in particular) as dangerous. At previous protests they have been observed attempting to photograph people’s crotch areas, obtain upskirt images, to goad people into reacting so that they can film and edit the response. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT!

Please remember that anything which helps them will harm the most vulnerable of our community first – trans women and transfeminine people of colour, sex workers, those who do not pass as cisgender. We have a plan for how to handle such protests which does not involve any engagement with the protestors and can be executed in a safe and peaceful manner. Your co-operation with these requests will assist us in executing the plan with minimal risk."

Ereshkigal · 28/07/2018 15:48

Lol, you carry on dear with your "educating" the public about the complex non binary issues. I'm sure they won't all think it's nonsensical narcissistic bullshit or anything.

heresyandwitchcraft · 28/07/2018 16:15

Thank you all for the kind feedback, and womanformallyknownaswoman for adding those definitions. Your thread on the Milgram experiment was definitely eye-opening. It is, in fact, due to the ideological nature of trans activism that I have started to think of it in "quasi-totalitarian" terms.

R0wantrees
It appears that publically the new tactic is telling people to pretend that females and dissenting views simply don't exist. I suppose that is preferable to advocating outright violence. I have no doubt, however, that behind the scenes the plan for how to handle such protests which does not involve any engagement with the protestors and can be executed in a safe and peaceful manner, will involve worrying measures. Have they sought advice from Pyongyang? Wink

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 16:16

arranfan

Thx for reminding me of that thread. I enjoyed your contributions immensely.

I am becoming more and more of a free speech advocate as the ideological policing of ideas and language always to lead to totalitarianism. Common sense goes out of the window. Perpetrators pretend to be saviours or victims and are believed. We have a long way to go to unmask the wolf's true colours.

That means that anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial, whilst unpalatable and abhorrent, have to be allowed and we must rely on the public signalling their disfavour by condemnation. What skews all of this is the misogyny allowed to have free rein and the ensuing condemnation being deliberately silenced and ignored by untoward media and politicians.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/07/2018 16:32

DO NOT approach the protestors
DO NOT speak to the protestors
DO NOT look at the protestors
DO NOT throw anything at the protestors (obviously!)
DO NOT point at, or even acknowledge the existence of the protestors!
And also:

DO follow the instructions and guidance of the march stewards and security
DO consider filming the situation if you feel threatened, or feel others are being threatened
DO keep your distance from the protestors, particularly if you are a trans person – they are likely to try to attempt to provoke or make it look like you’ve approached them
We accept that some of this this may come across as extreme and tone-policing, however the anti-trans protestors have a clearly demonstrated desire to portray transgender people as violent and abusive – a characterisation we all know to be absurd, however their previous activities show this is a common tactic. They will attempt to obtain photography and video which portrays trans people (trans women and assigned-male-at-birth nonbinary people in particular) as dangerous. At previous protests they have been observed attempting to photograph people’s crotch areas, obtain upskirt images, to goad people into reacting so that they can film and edit the response. PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT!

Wow - just wow!! The projection onto, and the "othering", of GC women and their supporters, is palpable - such disordered thinking in print.

Calling it "Fake news" is to downplay the sinister mind control at work- literally telling the participants to not see, hear or engage with people who hold differing views. To "other" them.

This mirrors cultic behaviour, like Scientology, to isolate the members from dissenting voices, in case they raise the critical thinking of the members who will start to separate out from the group and its ideology.

It's analogous to the treatment of lepers, refugees, Jews in WW2 and so on - the scapegoats - to treat them like they don't exist, starve them, turn a deliberate blind eye and ship them off somewhere remote to their demise.

It's what many Australian Govts have done to disappear its asylum seekers. Shocking treatment of human beings.

heresyandwitchcraft · 28/07/2018 23:07

I am becoming more and more of a free speech advocate as the ideological policing of ideas and language always to lead to totalitarianism. Common sense goes out of the window.

I agree completely on the importance of free speech. Genuinely, I have come to believe the limits should be as narrow as possible (obviously things like direct incitement to violence should be banned).
I think a great danger in our society is the fact that when you try to police how other people think, how they speak, you will inevitably end up in a terrible place. There is no way to control people's views without creating a system that is wide open to abuse.

This mirrors cultic behaviour, like Scientology, to isolate the members from dissenting voices, in case they raise the critical thinking of the members who will start to separate out from the group and its ideology.

The "suppressive persons" analogy really does seem to fit here.

Thank you, womanformallyknownaswoman
Your analysis is very insightful, and mirrors many of my own thoughts on this.

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