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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Article "Why Trans woman is a very bad word"

12 replies

TufVoyaging · 25/07/2018 11:47

This is my first thread, so sorry if I get anything wrong. I came across this very interesting article and wanted to share it. babeinbotland.com/2018/07/11/why-trans-woman-is-a-very-bad-word/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/07/2018 15:43

Clicky link.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/07/2018 15:44

It's a good article, but a bit wordy. I've seen much the same said on FWR in a lot less space.

BarrackerBarmer · 25/07/2018 16:09

And the part about 'third genders' being totes different because: culture, utterly undermined all the otherwise sterling arguments.

I found that part completely bewildering.
She argues that gender is predominantly used as a synonym for sex 99% of the time, lays out beautifully why sex is immutable and gender (used properly) means sex based roles and stereotypes, and then appears to give 'third gender' nonsense a free pass.
You can't afford respect to a third gender (role) without rubber stamping the first two genders (roles). And those third gender roles often still look suspiciously like biological males adopting what they deem to be female stereotypes. That they don't extend their misogyny to the virulence of western counterparts, yet, is no reason for a free pass. Besides, given time, that is exactly how they seem to progress. Looking at the examples in India where 'third genders' are now becoming indistinguishable from the trans misogyny of the west, demanding access to women's spaces even whilst the women of the country are fighting tooth and nail to have female toilets at all.

There is no 'two tier trans' rating system to divide good trans/bad trans.
There is only sex which cannot be changed, and those who try to gain validation as a member of the opposite sex.

theOtherPamAyres · 25/07/2018 16:42

The writer makes a point about the misappropriation of the words 'woman' and 'trans'.

Every time we use the term transwoman, we validate and normalise the occupation of men in the class of 'women'.

We really need alternative terms.

I'm not even convinced about using the term 'non-binary' on my submission to the consultation. It's an ideology. It's a protest against conformity and expectations. I don't see how it has anything to do with a process to change the details of a birth certificate.

SirVixofVixHall · 25/07/2018 16:54

Yes, I agree theOtherPamAyres.

TimeLady · 25/07/2018 17:14

I had a lightbulb moment when this was posted yesterday

My answer is in response to people asking for a defintion of woman.
...

Woman = adult human female and transwomen.

Adult human female does NOT inclued adult human male or transwomen.

So the attempt to widen the centuries-long definition of the word 'woman' to include a subset of males (transwoman) is the key aim for the transactivists. Because once they have that definition accepted, then all 'woman-only' or 'girl-only' places/spaces become accessible to that subset of males.

It's barmy logic.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/07/2018 17:16

I'd lost the will to live by the time it got to third gender, Barracker. Bit TLDR for me. Grin

LangCleg · 25/07/2018 17:29

The author of this article was quite controversial on Twitter, as I recall. Lots of accusations of homophobia (against her). I think she may have been suspended.

hipsterfun · 25/07/2018 22:55

We really need alternative terms.

The terms we were using on here were accurate, but I believe they are no longer permissible.

Ereshkigal · 25/07/2018 23:02

Every time we use the term transwoman, we validate and normalise the occupation of men in the class of 'women'.

Yes. Which is why I stopped using it about 2 years ago and I won't go back.

theOtherPamAyres · 25/07/2018 23:24

" We really need some alternative terms"

I posted my alternatives in a different topic. Ooops. Forive me if I cut and paste into this one:

.....a change in the terminology that describes transition.

A Feminine-trans (person) for Transwoman
A Masculine-trans (person) for Transman

For three reasons

  1. 'Feminine' and 'Masculine' describe the gender social constructs. TransWOMAN and TransMAN imply a change of sex.
  1. The terms do away with the need for words like Transchildren, TransBoy, TransGirl - labels that imply an inevitable journey into transition.
  1. The terms describe perceptions and feelings (of femininity or masculinity) rather than biological facts.
Vickyyyy · 25/07/2018 23:39

I lean more towards feminine man for transwoman and masculine woman for transmen tbh. As its accurate. And both feminists and transactivists agree that sex and gender are different things. And man/woman are terms that are to do with sex, as a man is an adult human male and a woman is an adult human female. So 'gender' must be about masculinity or femininity..so therefor, masculine man, for traswomen should not cause offence.

Willing to use transsexual woman for post operative transsexual male people though. And transsexual man for post op female people though. Personally. Though I guess making exceptions is still muddying language somewhat Confused

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