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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Men don't like being told

27 replies

Sunshinepimms · 23/07/2018 12:37

I'm quite annoyed with a guy at work. This is his first job from college so doesn't know much in the field we work in. I've been showing him how to do the work I've been doing and it's being passed over to him with me overseeing for a while until he has the hang of it.
He is suppose to send me things so I can review and say if it's ok to send out to the client. However he has ignored me emails and not sent to me for review and done it himself. On a few other clients I had quite big points which i told him about and I feel he doesn't like to be told.
This isn't the first time this has happened to me. I've shown another new guy how to do processes and he was suppose to come to me for questions but he point blank refused to.
One of my managers is holding me back and I feel he doesn't want me to progress even though I'm trying me hardest to. Although another manager has had words with him to say to give me better work to help me move up.
Is it just me or do men hate the fact that us women are more capable sometimes and feel they don't listen as it damages their egos.

OP posts:
Rhynswynd · 23/07/2018 12:44

It is not just you. They really hate it. I wish I had some advice.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 23/07/2018 12:48

Are you this twat's manager?

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2018 12:50

Regarding the trainee, do you have a documented performance management process? Will it be possible for you to warn him that this will affect his performance review unless he starts to demonstrate he can listen to instructions?

Similarly, can you (or have you) asked the obstructive manager what you need to do to progress?

Original poster
Sunshinepimms · 23/07/2018 13:00

I'm not a manager but he reports to me and then I report to the manager. So the middle person.
I raised it with my manager and said have you heard if this is ready for review as the client was chasing. He replied no but looks like the junior has sent it. I replied ok he was suppose to send to me for review shall I raise this. He said yes and go through the process of things with him please. So my manager is happy for me to pull him up on it. I don't know why he know why the junior thinks it's ok to ignore my emails and do this. He was trying to be cheeky with me too but I told him he weren't listening and not to be too cocky

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 23/07/2018 13:03

Well, you are part of his management chain if he is supposed to go through you rather than direct to your manager. You are his line manager, surely? Do you have any input or control over the junior's performance review?

Original poster
Sunshinepimms · 23/07/2018 13:05

Beauty I had my appraisal with the senior manager for the 1st time in my 3 years at the company. He is the supportive one. I've discussed alot with him how I want to progress and he said he can see potential. My manager also knows I want to progress and there are no forms for me to fill in unless I have my appraisal with him in December. My industry is very male dominated and I just feel like I'm banging my head against a wall alot

OP posts:
TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 23/07/2018 13:13

Ok. I'll ask again.

Do you have any authority to discipline or sack him? Ie you are his manager?

Original poster
Sunshinepimms · 23/07/2018 13:17

No I don't have the authority to sack him. I might be asked how he is getting on when it comes to a review for him.
The process has been explained that he sends to me to review and asks me questions so the manager does not have to get involved due to charge out rates to clients.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sunshinepimms · 23/07/2018 13:19

Anyway the point is this has happened more than once to me. And at my previous place of work too. Men put up resistance to any kind of authority from a women in my experience

OP posts:
Lichtie · 23/07/2018 13:30

I'm going to guess you are an accountant at an accountancy practice?

deydododatdodontdeydo · 23/07/2018 14:38

I've had mixed experiences. One small company I worked for had a female CEO, plenty of male and female staff. Everyone was fine except for one guy who was exactly like you describe, didn't like being told what to do by women and could barely hide the fact.
The other men were totally fine with it though, no issue.
Another place most of the senior managers (but not the CEO) were female, and there were no issues with any of the men.
People like this are a right pain and can ruin your work life.
If you are his manager you need to sit him down and reiterate how important it is that he follows procedure.
Involve HR or your manager if you can.

longtimelurkingtrans · 23/07/2018 15:07

I find that as well when instructing new starts/ mature adults who have retrained or this/my environment. Both male and female but predominantly men. they will eventually take the instruction from me and even had some question to me what my female instructor had told them, It's definitely being sexist and with me just a credibility problem a wee gay guy instructing these big rufty tufty types in how to do job safely. Log each incident and don't let anything be mansplained away and keep your own record for each time you involve HR etc.

GardenGeek · 23/07/2018 15:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Imnobody4 · 23/07/2018 15:19

Could you e mail him the outline of proper procedures, pointing out he hasn't gone through you as required and copy in your manager. Or perhaps talk to him first following up with the email. That way your manager can't claim he's unaware.

Bowlofbabelfish · 23/07/2018 15:47

You need to follow up every time with a totally unemotional email along the lines of ‘as per the workflow we discussed on x date, work needs to be checked by me (or whatever you’d agreed) before being passed to the client.’

Then follow up verbally. Reiterate the process. No passing to client without going through me - if you do this it opens us to liability.

If he persists, you raise it up the chain.

It is infuriating. I’ve worked with one guy who is utterly incompetent, gets his direct reports to do the work for him then takes credit for it. If he’d come to me with a ‘I have no idea how to do x can you run through it’ I’d help, but I know his MO - he’s stolen my work and that of others before and passed it off in calls where I was present as his own!

Original poster
Sunshinepimms · 23/07/2018 20:15

garden "Look at what you made me do" haha.
I've actually started thinking about doing it on my own. Less stress and more money!
The thing is I bet he is asking this other guy who would undermine me too. And it would have nothing to do with him. It might also be because I work part time hours so they think I may not be as authoritive.
Just grinds my gears!

OP posts:
Racecardriver · 23/07/2018 20:27

Maybe it is the industry you work in? It often seems to be the case that misogynist gravitate towards male dominated industries.

thebewilderness · 23/07/2018 21:47

Sometimes they try to keep you where you are because you make them look good and do not want to lose you.
Cold comfort and just as inappropriate as doing it for any other reason.

Original poster
Sunshinepimms · 23/07/2018 22:48

bewilderness you hit the nail on the head. Because I've been doing the same jobs for 3 years I can do then with my eyes closed and therefore that gives me manager a good recovery and makes him look good compared to other managers. I know this is why he is doing it.

OP posts:
bonitabonita · 24/07/2018 07:02

This is why I have my own business.

Longtalljosie · 24/07/2018 07:10

You need to stop beating around the bush and go to this little squit’s manager and say you have concerns. Say he knows very well he should send stuff to review and that you should be mentoring him but I’d ignoring your emails and sending stuff out anyway. Stress how unsafe this is as he is very new. Say things like “we all think we’re invincible when we’re just starting out”. Tell your manager you have raised this with him already and tell him it’s time he has a word.

If this works well, your young man will be unimaginably arsey with you. Look him straight in the eyes and say - I get that you’re able and you probably think this is un-necessary. But this is how it’s done, and I am responsible for the work you send out. Therefore I have to see it. It’s probably only temporary but the longer you fight it the worse you’ll make yourself look.

As for your manager holding you back - that’s a job for another day.

Longtalljosie · 24/07/2018 07:11

*he’s ignoring your emails, that should be

Nakedavenger74 · 24/07/2018 07:16

OP if you are in a similar business to me than it's the risk management process that ANYTHING has to go through someone senior before being released to the client. It just has to be done.
Tell him it's for his benefit and if he continues raise it as risk management issue. Partners soon sit up and listen when it's them who are exposed

Other than that. I've had a couple of cocky youngun's. always male. Never last long.

Doyoumind · 24/07/2018 07:25

I don't think this is restricted to men. I have managed women who are the same.

You need to make him understand that he won't learn and progress without guidance. If he fucks up and hasn't involved you it's 100% on him. If he fucks up and you have been involved it's on you. It's not just about him it's about the business and he doesn't get to make the rules.

Itoldyouiwasgeeky · 24/07/2018 07:32

Eurgh, I know how you feel op.

I once had to show a 19 year old boy (technically a man, but definitely not there yet mentally) how to work various prices of equipment at my old job.

He didn’t listen and kept saying ‘yeah, yeah I got it’ and then doing things wrong. My manager just kept telling me to show him again. On my 3rd/4th go at showing him one piece of equipment I snapped and shouted ‘well clearly you haven’t got it or I wouldn’t have to keep fixing it after you’ve finished with it’.

He quieted down with the ‘yeah yeahs’ after that but he still didn’t listen. Luckily, turned out to be insanely unreliable. He had lied at the interview and said he could do 5am starts, but he couldn’t, he just never turned up for those shifts. Not sure how he managed to stay employed for 2 weeks tbh.