another film-from-the-eighties thread: Pretty Woman

[speakingwoman]

followng the Private Benjamin re-appreciation thread - did anyone see Pretty Woman last night?

I first watched it when I was 16.

I have to say, it was 100 times better than I expected and I'd recommended it. Roberts moves her long body like my lanky 15 year old moves his - like she doesn't know what to do with all that length. it's such clever acting - makes you feel so protective towards her.

The much lauded "big mistake" scene is extremely misogynistic.

The 2 sales women are bigoted snobs judging her as too poor or insignificant to be in their shop. Then the big turnaround is only because Vivian is spending money given to her by a man

Woman has poor boundaries. Man treats others as less than human. Woman learns to exert some pretty fucking flimsy boundaries. Through this, Man is redeemed and learns that others are also human.

It is nauseating, regurgitated bullshit that places men's humanity and decency as the responsibility of women to encourage and uncover because men only act like that because women let them/incite them. And that's before any analysis of the Happy hooker/cinderella tropes. Blurgh.

The whole premise of the film always annoyed me. So many others have put it more eloquently than I could on this thread.

The sequel to Pretty Woman is Sleeping with the Enemy.

Spot on, placemats.

great Lass, you clearly have some superpower that makes you immune from sexism.

Indie the original script is very different and is quite interesting to compare with the actual film (I’ve linked upthread). I’d much rather they’d made it like that rather than giving it the glossy bubblegum treatment!!! The original Vivien was an experienced streetwalker and Edward was a git and stayed that way to the end and it had quite a pretty depressing ending.

I loathe this awful film for all the reasons others have suggested.

The Lemon & McGuinness parody recently was much more acceptable.

interesting.

I think what I'm picking up is the tenson between

• what I see
• what many men see or saw.

I get something very positive out of it and make no apology for it. The rest of you don't which is fine.

I suppose the flipside is Lolita, which I thought was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius in my early 20s and now see as a dirty old man's manifesto. It saddens me to read defences of it. It's all so transparent to me now as an older person. Hiding in plain sight and all that.

anyway, I guess that's art.

great Lass, you clearly have some superpower that makes you immune from sexism

Not being idiotic enough to think the menopause is a suitable topic for a business lunch (unless of course the business was pharmaceutical and we were discussing a new drug) helps.

Your description of a business lunch verges on caricature. Aside from the fact it pre-supposes that no woman would ever be interested in talking about rugby if the topic came up- personally I wouldn't but I know plenty of women who would.

Amber, thanks for the link - really interesting to see how it was completely turned on it's head.

Depressing, but in a different way!

speakingwoman

I suppose the flipside is Lolita, which I thought was a heartbreaking work of staggering genius in my early 20s and now see as a dirty old man's manifesto. It saddens me to read defences of it. It's all so transparent to me now as an older person. Hiding in plain sight and all that.

I agree about Lolita - it's so well written that it fooled me, for quite a while when I was younger, into thinking its artistic merit superseded its nastiness.

I've been on business lunches with men who discussed their middle aged spread, that getting the coffee was no longer expected to be seen as a 'the token woman's job' despite there being more than one woman there and that they were on call should their child need taking out of school and that they were on pick up today.

None of the women discussed this and looked on in amusement. It was obvious they were looking for brownie points and perhaps sympathy.

To give them their due they didn't call anyone Ladies or Girls.

I hate the scene where women making an honest living as sales assistants are humbled by a woman who sells her body.

There are many things wrong with Pretty Woman but that is not a fair approximation of that scene.

Sales assistants who have treated a female potential customer appallingly because they judged her based only on how she looked and dressed is humbled by that customer for their prejudice and misjudgement .

Those women were bitches and that scene is not about a prostitute getting one over on some one with a non-sex job at all.

The biggest problem with the film is the clean, glamour of prostitution. It's like those 40s films where a homeless child just has a tiny smug of dirt on his cheek to convey a rough live of street living and starvation.

Regarding art I'm with Hannah Gadsby on this.

www.facebook.com/hannahgadsbycomedy/videos/hannah-gadsby-%E2%80%93-nanette-%7C/10156639770618000/

Hi Vicky, yes. I feel complicit to this day. Have you looked at Reading Lolita in Tehran for an alternative view? Have you seen the Solnit essay?

Amber, I will follow the link thanks. Appreciated. I like learning stuff on this forum.

lass, if the worst thing I do today is describe a boring sexist lunch in a nearly, caricatured way, know that I'll lose no sleep as a result.

Those women were bitches

The scene only works because of the misogynistic assumption the sales women would be "bitches"

lass, if the worst thing I do today is describe a boring sexist lunch in a nearly, caricatured way, know that I'll lose no sleep as a result

Oh that isn't the worst thing you've said on this thread.

Have you tried reading the current thread on real life prostitution?

Can you link to that Lass ?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3260133-You-need-to-read-this-article-about-the-Leeds-red-light-district

Here it is.

Lass. I'm absolutely fine with you disliking and disapproving of this film.

" It's like those 40s films where a homeless child just has a tiny smug of dirt on his cheek to convey a rough live of street living and starvation."

That's a good way of putting it. Reminds me of the Dickens tradition? I found him unbearable whem I was younger because all the women were (are) stereotypes. But now I'm older I can see what he was trying to do in his work and how important it was Just re-read Old Curiosity and the descriptions of Little Nell handling her grandfather (child as carer) were extraordinary, and must have come from something he'd witnessed.

I guess it's hard to know whether to condemn Dickens for its harm or appreciate its good.

It's interesting to see how many people are sure that it would not be made today. Should filmmakers only be allowed to depict harsh reality? Or is there a place for escapism?

Why do so many popular romantic stories, myths, legends, books and films (from Cinderella to Pride & Prejudice to Dirty Dancin to 50 Shades the list is long) contain the trope of a high status male (in looks, wealth, height, strength or other capability such a dancing or flying fighter jets) comes to the rescue.

How much do you think this is conditioning? How much does it reflect biology?

Thanks Lass

I've just posted on it.