Arguments about feminism in the home

[Caropod]

Can anyone share with me or relate on this?
My partner and I sometimes argue about feminism and it can get quite heated. He takes my heightened emotion and says I am being aggressive to him or even bullying him if I suggest that maybe he’s not the perfect ally that he thinks he is. He says that instead of getting heated with him I should basically go and take it up with some real bigots, I try to explain to him that really that’s called tone policing and silencing and that if you’re part of the movement then the process of deconstructing the current system should exist in all of us even in the minor details. Anyway I find the way he deals with it is really defensive and intolerant - he thinks he’s so woke but he’s clearly not woke enough to stop himself from yelling me down while kindly relaying the information to me that no real progress can be had when the feminists are shouting too loud at the ‘good ones’ like him...

No, mine is well versed in feminism and agrees with me on pretty much everything...

Well basically, he's NOT one of the good ones, is he?

Sounds like DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. From dynamic.uoregon.edu/jjf/defineDARVO.html -

"DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim or the whistle blower into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of "falsely accused" and attacks the accuser's credibility and blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation."

So, you try to hold him accountable for his behavior ( " I suggest that maybe he’s not the perfect ally that he thinks he is" ), he Denies his behaviour by claiming to be one of 'the good ones', Attacks you by yelling you down, then Reverses Victim and Offender by claiming you are being aggressive and bullying him, turning himself into the victim.

Men often get defensive when women talk about Feminism because they take it as a personal accusation and get all emotional and start shouting.
Best to just tell him that you need to take a break till he calms down and stops making it all about him, as men so often do.

I couldn’t be with an idiot like that.

I have a "super woke" LP member who pops up on my FB page every now and then to insist I declare NAMALT, and does all the What About the Menz shit, when I post about issues like prostitution and gender inequality in architecture (toilets). suspect he's swallowed the "TWAW" line too.

It seems women's rights are great and all as long as he is the one fighting fir them, not nasty men hating, actual feminists - they go too far.

It's made me REALLY dislike him. I'd hate to face this in my actual home.

It sounds as though you are not very compatible.

Give leaving it all alone a try for a while, ie being less militant. I'm a feminist and can put my opinions over in a non-aggressive way but probably I'm a lot older than you. Hee hee, now I'm being ageist!

Yes try and be more considerate of the men in your feminism op

Haha thanks all - well this thread cheered me up. We stopped talking about it but I just don’t think most men are as woke as they think they are, don’t they realise that sometimes being an ally is just being in the same room as a person who does not enjoy the same privilege as you and allowing space for their anger; without getting the man equivalent of white fragility and squealing about how it’s not your fault... I’m looking at my own part here and if I’m really honest maybe I get extra militant because of that fact that he is like this, like a feminist lite. And probably because our relationship is coming to its natural end and my anger just goes to my activism sometimes...

There's nothing quite like a man who claims to be "a feminist" (of course, radfems believe men can't be because they're men) and then nags, bullies or otherwise harasses a woman about it...

Its much easier to be cool calm and collected when you're not the one affected by the problem.

i don't really talk to my DH about feminism because he doesn't really understand and I don't think talking about it helps him understand. I have to show him in situations so for example, he now takes the children to their doctor appointments as he has seen they get better treatment when the big important man takes them instead of the silly neurotic mummy.

'Woke'? The flag of the virtue-signalling SJW. 'Woke' males often adhere to one or two of the rules of misogyny

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/6kkeni/theerulesoffmisogyny/

I know what you mean. I think even the good ones will have done things in their past that are sexist and so that is why they defend. They know better now with age and experience but defend becasue they are guilty to one extent or another, and so identitfy with the wrongdoer not the vicitm.

But rather than admit it, regret it and move on they are stuck in the mindset of defending. Macho shit and not being comfortable being in the wrong in front of a woman. As obviously that makes them really low, if they are lower than women... it is an on going battle if they make it one.

The really good ones wont do this but how few are they?

I think men definitely tend to take class analysis personally. They're so emotional, poor things.

Even my DSs, brought up by a feminist, sometimes take it personally if i say something about male violence, for example.

And yet it is supposd to be woman who are all emotional and irrational. Gasligthing fuckers.

I think good women show men up a lot of the time and they don't like it.

I had an argument once where the man said that he wanted to spend itme with men becuase all they said was bullshit nonsense and how easy that was.

Smart women make men think and consult their conscience and work a bit harder to empathise, make better choices and be accountable. Lazy bastards don't like that so we can just shut up.

I am constantly arguing about feminism in my house. It used to be with my ex who believed I hated men (nope...just men like him) and now my teenage daughter who doesn't think we need feminism.

I try to avoid the subject - I know what I believe and what I know to be true. Trying to change their opinions is just frustrating and pointless.

Also have you noticed - just as with the alt right and upsurgence of nazis and people who want others to ‘go back to the country they came from’ - we arent even close to equality and the meninists are already here trying to shout over us - I feel like we feminists know that we have to dig deeper, making sure we are addressing the problems with ‘white feminism’ ‘straight feminism’ ‘cus feminism’ so that we can break down problematic exclusivity and make sure that any privilege that any of us have, whethers that’s, lighter skin, wealth, class, or otherwise, that that privilege is used to raise the floor for those with less privilege - so why these woke Mens gotta be like ‘LISTEN IM GOOD, IVE GRADUATED WITH A FIRST IN ‘WOKE MALE’, and honors in ‘IT WASNT ME WHO HIT YOU’, so shut up and stop being so angry’ (might as well join clubs: ‘slavery was 400 years ago’, ‘my best friend is black’ and ‘all lives matter’ while you’re at it mate...

So you are both shouting at each other? You both really need to grow up. He's right. No political cause can gain any true momentum through inarticulate over emotional screeching. Either make and intellectual argument or don't bother. You should bother learn to control your tempers and have rational discussions.

No I wasn’t shouting but thanks for your amazing comment

I just don’t think most men are as woke as they think they are.

My brother is generally a good man and says he absolutely agreed that men and women should have equal pay.

When it was suggested he should take time off work to look after future babies rather than his lovely and talented wife-to-be who earns the same as him, he was all 'well, it's not as accepted as it is for women, is it?'. Grrrr.

I wouldn't say anyone needs to "grow up". But if you're in predictable conflict with a family member, you either have to break off the relationship, or find a way to limit the tension. Maybe be willing to say "We can't talk about this subject". If the other person keeps taunting you with it, say "Yes, you've said that before. Sorry we can't agree. No, that's enough for today."

It's pretty rare for a man to completely satisfy a feminist with his conduct and opinions, and if you want a relationship with a man, you have to live with that. I suppose it's a question of what's really vital to you, and what you can tolerate, even if it's annoying.