Should the State consider that locking women up with rapists will lead to unplanned new lives?

[WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice]

Since the state now takes the ideological position that validating someone’s identity is more important than protecting women’s reproductive vulnerability within the prison system, this will lead to conception as a result of rape.

It will not, under current law, be possible to compel women prisoners to use contraception just in case they get attacked by a rapist in the female estate, or to compel them to have an abortion. Also conditions may not be conducive in prison to women coming forward early enough to report the rape and receive emergency contraception or obtain an abortion.

The majority of women who carry to term keep their babies, even if they are conceived as a result of rape and where babies are born in prison they will stay with the mother for the first 18 months and then be normally placed with the extended family until the mother is released and gets her life back together in secure housing to look after them.

Motherhood is a huge undertaking, separation from or relinquishing babies takes a huge toll on both mother and baby, the poor nutrition, stressful conditions and unstimulating environment of prison are bad for the developing foetus and infant and extended families looking after children have a task on their hands.

Should the state be focusing on the rights of women to not experience forced motherhood through rape in prison and focusing on the likely poor welfare of babies conceived in prison rather than on validating the claimed inner identity of prisoners of the male sex by placing them in the female estate?

Should women’s reproductive vulnerability be reason enough to separate the sexes in prison?

Here are some stats on women in prison:

www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php

No male bodied person should be incarcerated with women. For any reason, at any time.

The state has a duty of care towards all prisoners in terms of their health and safety. Their punishment, mediated by the state, is deprivation of liberty.

All prisoners have a right to safety. I can well believe transwomen are vulnerable too amd there needs to be examination on how to best protect them. This could be separate wings in the Male estate.

However it cannot safely be within the female estate.

Female prisoners are vulnerable and their safety is important.

Didn't you start an almost identical thread yesterday, WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice?

Has something happened to it?

It went a bit Pete Tong, so I decided to start a fresh one.

Should the state be focusing on the rights of women to not experience forced motherhood

Yes...

Basically

Is it even possible to answer no to this question

Why would someone say no...women in prison don't deserve even this basic right

Ah yes, just found it.

Yes. Sadly I think I needs spelling out to the powers that be that housing rapist 'women' with penises alongside the other type o women, the ones who can and do get pregnant and on the whole tend to be vulnerable is going to lead to rape and pregnancy.

The previous thread got too tetchy to continue. But all combatants agree that the issue of women prisoners is an important one. Hence the new thread.

Have you considered that an in-prison conception may be the result of consensual sex between inmates, OP? What implications does this have?

I can't see any good reason to end sex segregation in prisons. The objective should be to accommodate trans prisoners (of either sex) with dignity, but in the estate of their own sex. Wings for vulnerable prisoners may not necessarily be the most appropriate if the trans prison population grows. Would you want to be stuck in with all the sex offenders if you weren't a sex offender yourself?

All that said, the priority of feminists should be women prisoners who are some of the most vulnerable and voiceless women in the country. Clueless woketopians should be allowed nowhere near policy-making in this regard.

Have you considered that an in-prison conception may be the result of consensual sex between inmates, OP? What implications does this have?

I think this is a possibility and I don't think prison is a good place for babies to be conceived from a welfare perspective. Also, I think there is a sexist tendency to view women who are being manipulated or coerced in ways other than brute force as 'consenting' or in a 'mutually beneficial' situation, and this would lead to a certain amount of abuse to be re-framed as 'consensual'.

Additionally, I don't think prison is a great place for making great choices over who will be the father of your children - the artificial, institutionalised setting could link people together through parenthood who are entirely incompatible and would be better off having never met, but the situation led to poor judgement.

Just found it myself...good idea to start a new thread

The objective should be to accommodate trans prisoners (of either sex) with dignity, but in the estate of their own sex. Wings for vulnerable prisoners may not necessarily be the most appropriate if the trans prison population grows. Would you want to be stuck in with all the sex offenders if you weren't a sex offender yourself?

Apparently gay men and transgender prisoners are the most likely to be raped or experience coerced sexual activity in prison, so I think it would make sense to have a wing for more vulnerable prisoners who are not a threat to others eg- gay, transgender, disabled, small build, easily extorted, etc, rather than seeing it as a wing for sex offenders that transgender people have to join.

I think I've been lulled into a false sense of security over risk assessments. For example, I had assumed that each prisoner would be assessed for risk to others and themselves before being moved. And that the prison service would take into account the high rate of vulnerable women including DV survivors among female prisoners.

Risk assessment are only as good as the assessor's ability to invisage a multitude of possible outcomes.

Perhaps the stink that a nasty, manipulative, narcissistic psycho can cause the prison service is greater than what any woman attacked and impregnated by him is likely too A trade off.

To

I think it is unethical and wrong for female prisoners to be forced to share spaces with trans prisoners who retain their penis. I see so many arguments along the lines of, well they are criminals so why does it matter, or sexual assaults happen anyway so why does it make a difference. Leaving aside the many reasons that it does, the simple fact is this could result in children being born unwanted and in less than ideal circumstances, maybe having to be separated from their birth mother. So, even if one does not give a shit about the female prisoner, how on earth can they justify encouraging such a shitty start in life for any baby. I don't know the answer to that, but I know that "this would never happen" is naive at best.

I see so many arguments along the lines of, well they are criminals so why does it matter, or sexual assaults happen anyway so why does it make a difference.

Last time I looked, the penalty for committing a crime in the UK did not involve rape as part of the sentence. Rape is NEVER EVER acceptable, no matter who the victim is or what they've done, and the state is OBLIGED to protect prisoners because it has assumed custody and responsibility for them. Anyone who thinks raping prisoners is OK is justifying rapists and can take a one-way trip to Mars.

If male prison guards are raping prisoners, the answer is to make the guards all-female, not put male prisoners in the cells with the females. If you have a small fire, you put water on it to put it out, not more fuel to make it bigger.

Never build nor cosign on a prison that you wouldn't be ok spending a month in: you could be charged and remanded or suffer a miscarriage of justice and find yourself inside one day.