This thread reinforces to me why I'm here fighting this issue

[gendercritter]

It's from the AMA section. It's questions being put to a gynecologist here There are pages and pages of women asking about their gynecological health to the point where the OP has said 'am slightly shocked by how many women are asking me specific clinical advice on this thread, which implies they have not had their queries answered by their own GP or gynaecologist, don’t understand or, worse, don’t trust them.'

She also talks about women having disgust about their own bodies or lack of knowledge about their anatomy. And also about how hard it is for women to be taken seriously and referred on to specialists when they legitimately need help.

We need to be free to talk about our bodies and our sex. Women matter. If this is how things are in the UK where women have at least some voice and some power and access to education, etc, imagine how bad things are across the developing world.

Wow fascinating thread. Thanks for linking.

If you can grab an old copy of Our bodies, Ourselves, do so now.

I thought those ama threads were just nosy intrusive questions.
This thread shows a desperation to know more and understand one's own body: information they obviously can't get elsewhere.

Very important thread, thanks

I'm not surprised on the slightest. I've spent too much time in the childbirth section.

What women can not talk about in real life is staggering, and the lack of trust they have with HCPs should be alarming but is accepted as normal and blamed on woman as if they are ungrateful.

Medically our bodies are second class citizens.

This is such a relevant point. Thanks for making the link between the two issues. It's stark.

Yes, men have ruled (and still rule) medicine, and it'll take centuries to begin to really equalise things, if it ever.

Things like miscarriage, prematurity, still birth, and birth still woefully underfunded compared to men's conditions - even though they affect the long term lives of the men born that way or those trying to conceive, they're seen as "just" women's issues.

Our sex education in school was "if you do it you'll get pregnant". It took till my late 20s to understand the realities of trying to conceive.

Funnily enough, characters in US shows often refer to seeing their gynaecologist. I began picking up on it because I've never seen one, and the references almost sound routine sometimes. Is it "better" over there because of private healthcare? Or is that just a small Hollywood quirk I've noticed?

Yes. Medically we are second class citizens indeed. There are still so many aspects of female biology that are obscure or taboo. It’s only in recent years that it has become possible to talk openly about menstruation, miscarriage, infertility or even the post-partum problems many women face like prolapse or incontinence.

There is still a conspiracy of silence around many aspects of conception, pregnancy and birth. I had no idea that missed miscarriage was a possibility until I read about it here on MN when I was trying to conceive. Then it happened to me and it was a terrifying shock but at least I knew what it was and what to expect because of women on here sharing their experiences openly.

So many HCPs still have a long way to go in making it easier to help women with our specific healthcare needs. Yet we hear so much now about how the trans community needs better healthcare resource and needs to have their voice represented when they represent - what? - 0.1% of the population? Maybe 1% tops? Women are 50% of the population and are still treated like an aberration or deviation from the male ‘normal’.

@Mogleflop - I live in the US and it’s typical to have a gynaecologist / obstetrician (OB-GYN, as they term it) who will deal with annual Well Woman checks, smear tests, fertility issues and also treat you in pregnancy and for the birth. It’s a great system and I much prefer it to the NHS system that is GP-led. Some Americans I know think it’s over-medicalised and would prefer to only see a midwife and that is an option if you prefer but the norm, if you have insurance, is to see an OB-GYN.

My friend in Germany says they all have ob-gyns over there too. They see them yearly, and it's the ob-gyn who does things like your smear. Her opinion was it was so much better to always see the same person as they then had knowledge about your body. She valued their expertise because then she could talk about her gynecological health in detail and had a high degree of trust in the advice she was getting.

I think nurses are capable if doing smears but I think many women could benefit from the above set up.

The sheer volume of 'help, what's going wrong with me' on the AMA thread shows how crap we are at caring for women's health here. It makes me very sad

Crow I too thought of "Our Bodies, Ourselves' right away. That aspect of second wave feminism was brilliant, with its emphasis on breaking taboos over understanding our bodies.

Our sex education in school was "if you do it you'll get pregnant". It took till my late 20s to understand the realities of trying to conceive.

Same here. I couldn't believe it when I found out that you can only get pregnant during your 7 fertile days. I found this out when trying for ds1 at 31 years old!

I dont think it's a lie that gynocology would be very different if the issues effected men. My dh is horrified by the things I've had done with just a quick local anaesthetic in a standard treatment room. Bits trimmed off, burned out and stitched up.

On that other thread the things they said about meshes is scary. There is no safe reliable treatment for prolapse! So what will happen if we prolapse now mesh is off the cards?

@InionEile that's really interesting, and yes, worlds ahead of where we are.

Out of sheer curiosity, is it a male-dominated field? Or does it tend to be women's doctors? Is it well-respected?

• "female doctors" would make more sense there.

Clearly I need my morning tea again...

Thanks for linking this. I'd avoided all the AMAs as there were far too many!

I've only read through the first page and I'm already shocked at how women are fobbed off, shocked that young GPs may not even receive training in certain fields (sexual health, menopause etc), and gobsmacked that we are routinely told that a cs is far more risky for a baby when it's not.

Great thread op. I’ve been reading the gynae AMA thread too. I’m not surprised theirs so many questions.

GP knowledge around women’s health is poor. It takes 9 years (on average) to diagnose endometriosis.

I was in pain for 20 years and saw 4 female HCP who immediately saw they problem and empathised with me, and 2 male gynecologists who were incredibly rude, dismissive, and refused any treatment with no suggestion of how to lessen or prevent pain during sex.
One absolutely insisted he knew what my problem was, when I assured him he was 100% wrong. I really should have complained.

A female sex therapist (because by then I was convinced it was all in my head) finally referred me to a female gynecologist and within 2 months the issue was fixed with a minor op, although now in my head sex = pain and that is taking much longer to get rid of.

The male lens on my female body, and the refusal to listen to me, robbed me of a normal sex life for me and my lovely, patient DH.

I would absolutely support a campaign to raise awareness that women are not hysterical maniacs and male HCP should have more training on female anatomy and learn to fucking listen to what they're saying. I feel very strongly about it.

Typically OB-GYNs are women nowadays, Mogleflop. It used to be a male-dominated field, like all fields of medicine, but now it is about 70% women, in my experience anyway. My OB-GYN practice is about two-thirds women practitioners.

Germany is the same, all treatment for gynae stuff is by the ‘Frauenartzt’ (literally ‘women-doctor’) and women typically have an annual check up where they see the same doctor. In Germany, when I lived there anyway, the field was more 50-50 women to men.

The NCT has been influential in the U.K., I think, in pushing fir the midwife-led model, which might be ok for giving birth but is no help for other gynae issues. The idea behind it was to ensure woman-centered care because midwives were / are almost entirely female but it’s not as relevant, I find, in a time when many obstetricians / gynaes are women.