It’s not 28 years since we were in the semi finals of a football World Cup... it’s 3

[iVampire]

... it’s 3... it’s just 28 since the men managed it.

Now that the unstoppable behemoth of that World Cup has been and gone for another 4 years, I was pondering what those next four years might look like.

Because since about 2012, there has been a major increase in coverage of women’s sports which is a good thing (though I think it does rather remain the ‘other’)

So I was also pondering on what next. Are the times when there is not a major event on the most important times to make headway (IYSWIM) thus avoiding criticism of being joy-suckers and also avoiding the setting up unnecessary opposition between sports (it’s not a zero sum game)

And indeed is the aim of persuading people (participants, OE teachers, spectators, broadcasters) to diversify attention the right one?

Did anyone else watch the match last night - male players, male commentators, a line of male tv personalities lined up discussing it, and think there is no way in hell that women would be allowed to have that ?

I think that it is the level of support that sports have between the big set piece events is important.

It seems we might be rather a minority though, as this thread has been so quiet

I'm totally with you on this iVampire. You make a fantastic point very well. Wish I had more to contribute. I have never followed football but will try to take a real interest in the women's sport myself.

The world cup is pretty much the only sports event I watch. I find the permutations of the group stage fascinating- especially the final simultaneous matches in each group to determine who goes through.

I like the fact that that millions of people will be watching games at the same time and most viewers, particularly as the tournament progresses, will have no personal patriotic attachment to the teams playing. For example other than the peoples of Nigeria, Argentina and Croatia was anyone not supporting Iceland in their group?

The final in 2014 had an audience of 1 billion. I like the idea of 1 billion people watching it and the vast majority not really caring who wins.

I don't know what the answer to the question being posed here is. I can't imagine I will ever have the same interest in women's football. I suppose for me the (men's) world cup simply is a unique event and the attraction is that it is unique.

I barely watch any sports at all nowadays, but thinking back to when I was a child and there were only 3 tv stations, even then the only sports I enjoyed watching were Wimbledon - despite the 3/5 set thing it's both sexes and the women's or mixed doubles were often more fun than blokes slogging it out - and Horse of the Year. Probably in that case for the horses tbh but it's properly mixed sex. This wasn't in any way a conscious choice equality-wise but there are popular sporting events which aren't all about the men.

Oh I loved The Horse of the Year ! From Olympia wasn't it ? And it has a victor ludorum trophy- how cool is that?

I think it's on Sky but I don't have any cable packages.

I made the same point on facebook! And someone else made it on a linkedin post. And now on mn. Koko...

And it has a victor ludorum trophy- how cool is that?

But surely sometimes it should properly have been Victrix ludorum.^^ ?

Horse of the Year - is that where they do the puissance? I used to love that.

But yes, OP - more attention needs to be given to women's successes in world sports (and sports generally) so that we hear "it's 28 years since England's men's team has been in a world cup semi final - the women's team were there 3 years ago" instead.

If we can change the default view of sporting success in the minds of broadcasters, followers, etc. from focusing solely on men's achievements by elevating the status of women's achievements at the very least it would encourage more girls into sport.

I detest boxing and I generally hate adverts but when I see Nicola Adams advertising whatever it is she's been hired to advertise I am filled with admiration for her skill and charisma. I suppose that's a start...

I'm not really into football at all and intended not to watch it, but DH started watching it and DD1 has been doing about it in school. The thing that strikes me (pun intended) is how ingrained the inherent sexism is that no-one notices that they never mention the womens' game even though - as noted - they actually have done much better recently than the mens' team. And the all male cast of commentators, yes.

The complete lack of surprise or even general awareness that men get to have a huge global event, which everyone is expected to celebrate (food in the shops, adverts, everything is about the world cup right now) which is men only. I'm not saying they shouldn't - but where are the comparable women-only huge events?

It strikes me that it does send a subliminal message to DD1 - a lot of her class activities based around a purely male sporting event. I bet a lot of the boys in her class (some of whom are really into football) will be dreaming of being in the world cup one day. What are the girls supposed to take from this experience though? I'm willing to bet that next year when it's the womens' world cup they don't do the same thing, though I hope very much to be proved wrong. Maybe I should write to the school about it next year, when the time comes.

Listening to the radio in the car in the way home before the semi final, they did say it was the first time for 28 years that England had been in the semi final of the men's world cup. I wad quite impressed they said that. I think it wad a local radio station.

Was not wad.

The women's game has come on loads but so far it just isn't the same game and there isn't the same interest (possibly because of a large proportion of women declaring in football to be pointless and another large proportion seeming to think it has some sort of evil magic property, if these boards are anything to go by).

The money in any sport is directly related to the number of people who are interested and will spend money on tickets and merchandise. The women's game is currently heavily subsidised by the men's in a way that doesn't happen in any other sport.

FWIW it wasn't the first men's team to reach a semi in years either. England are the current holders of the World Cup for U20 and Masters.

Jesus christ, I mentioned this to DH and his reply was 'yeah but they mean proper football'

He usually 'gets' all my feminist rants and such so that was surprising.

He's right to a point though Vickyyy (although poorly expressed) watching women's football is like watch u13 boys, the nobody's interested in that either

The women's game is currently heavily subsidised by the men's in a way that doesn't happen in any other sport.

To be fair, they did forcefully eject us from the football association and ban us from using their facilities for 50 odd years, so I don't feel bad about that.

They did Disturbingly but equally the women's came in its current form wouldn't exist at all without the senior men's clubs supporting it.

yes, indeed - who knows what form football would take if men's massive misogyny hadn't taken over.

I don't think it can be considered 'equally' however - I don't think we should thank the men for letting us come back and play - because they didn't, women fought hard and demanded it.

Being ejected from something, and having to fight your way back in is obviously going to be a bit of an impediment compared to sitting there happy the whole time no?

My dad has come round to the idea of women's football and really enjoys it

TBF women's football only became so huge in the early 20th century because we sent all the male footballers off to fight a war.

Are the times when there is not a major event on the most important times to make headway...

I know you asked this in relation to being a killjoy OP, but those accusations always are more about the person accusing so I'm ignoring it. Fox had the rights to show both the Women's WC in 2015 and this year's men's tournament and they treated them equally. In the three years since USWNT won on prime time national tv, the National Women's Soccer League has gotten more attention with weekly games on Lifetime, occasional games on the main ESPN, and many games streaming for free. I think the only time to make real headway is between major tournaments. It's a long slow process.

TBF women's football only became so huge in the early 20th century because we sent all the male footballers off to fight a war.

And there's the misogyny. Women's football was popular before the war, it was popular during the war, and it was popular after the war - until the FA banned it from their stadiums. Women weren't second best, they were full participants, enjoyed playing and people enjoyed watching.