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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Look what happened when Alison Moyet refused to be called a cis woman **title amended at request of OP**

115 replies

LaSqrrl · 11/07/2018 09:48

"You can identify as anything you want these days, except as a woman. Consider what happened to British singer Alison Moyet. Last week, on Twitter, she said she didn’t want to be known as a cs-woman, just as a woman. ‘I defend everyone’s right to have the pronoun that they choose and will honour it’, she diplomatically said. And ‘I do not choose Cs for mine’, she continued. ‘It took women like me long enough to own the title “woman” in the first place. It’s a long enough word for me.’ The response to this calm, clear, polite act of self-definition? Fury. And insult. And abuse. On such a voluble level that Moyet eventually recanted her linguistic heresy, deleted her tweet, and left Twitter."
Read rest of the article here.

Moyet's response to being 'forcibly assigned' the c*s label was quite polite and restrained (far more so than I can ever muster). Yet she was relentlessly told by the twitterverse to 'stfu woman' with a pile of 'hate tweets' - that she should accept it, like it or not.

Moyet has several follow up tweets, including this one where she says:
"I will name you as you identify. Must you afford me less?"

Apparently the answer is "no". And more reasons to stfu and accept it. Hmm

'Woman' is not terra nullius, we are 52%. We will not be hoodwinked into giving up our names, only for males to claim them (that is what the c-prefix is all about). Our answer is "no" and is not the start of a 'negotiation'.

OP posts:
ShotsFired · 11/07/2018 11:52

I really like some of the clarity of articulation in that article, e.g.

the bizarre insistence that she and the rest of us define ourselves in relation to the tiny, strange world of trans-activism. Against the expectation that we should constantly declare the fact that we are not trans by saying instead that we are cis


it might just be a smidgen misogynistic to suggest that womanhood is such a slight and flimsy thing that it can be achieved by a mere act of self-declaration

imwideawake · 11/07/2018 11:54

OP any chance you could get a title change? Include the words Alison Moyet.
It would stay in trending for longer and catch the eye of the main posters.
The more people who read about this the better.

Either that or keep bumping.

bigKiteFlying · 11/07/2018 11:58

"I will name you as you identify. Must you afford me less?"

It does seem to be all one way.

It does feel like I’m being told it wrong to be worried about my own children’s' actual safety while at same time I’m not worried enough about adult strangers fears over safety.

LaSqrrl · 11/07/2018 13:12

OP any chance you could get a title change? Include the words Alison Moyet.

What do you suggest?

"Look what happened when Alison Moyet refused to be called a cis woman"?

It had the banned word, so I was too afraid to use it in the title.

OP posts:
arranfan · 11/07/2018 13:15

LaSqrrl - Maybe ask MNHQ is it OK for use elsewhere as the language guidance seems to be implemented on FWR more than elsewhere?

When Alison Moyet refused to call herself a cis woman?

FusionChefGeoff · 11/07/2018 13:20

I think you can use 'cis' when discussing its general use. You just can't say to a poster that they are a cis-woman

arranfan · 11/07/2018 13:25

'Woman' is not terra nullius"

Has anyone else had the passing thought that that would make an interesting T-shirt? And then wondered whether it would fall under Theme Park/other venue's dress codes for "inflammatory or offensive statements" and thus be deemed "inappropriate"?

noeffingidea · 11/07/2018 13:40

Thats a terrific article, says what it needs to very clearly. I wonder if there will be a backlash.
Personally I think attacking Alison Moyet was a bad tactic. She's still very popular and just seems so, well, nice. It does come across as bullying a nice decent person.

UpstartCrow · 11/07/2018 13:40

Is anyone else starting to see the Scapegoat/Golden Child dynamic in all of this?

LaSqrrl · 11/07/2018 13:50

When Alison Moyet refused to call herself a cis woman?

Wrong emphasis. Her objection was that it was forcibly thrust upon her (probably in the name of 'good allyship').

OK, so I will ask if they will change it.

OP posts:
LaSqrrl · 11/07/2018 13:53

I have put in a request to have it changed

OP posts:
Melamin · 11/07/2018 14:04

I love singing along to her Raggle Taggle Gypsies O Grin

I saw that bullying unfold on Twitter the other day Shock and the piece written above is good.

imwideawake · 11/07/2018 14:14

How about Alison Moyet.

She's much loved. I'm sure lots of people would click on it for the name alone. Out of curiosity.

imwideawake · 11/07/2018 14:16

I see you've done it.

imwideawake · 11/07/2018 14:17

It's definitely out and out bullying of women who have the temerity to speak their own minds.

Throughout history, men have tried to silence women and prevent them from speaking out and having an opinion.
Nothing has changed.

KERALA1 · 11/07/2018 14:41

The world has gone utterly mad. Thats a great article. Saw Alison Moyet sing recently she is fab, forgotten how good, song after song, all great. Alison if you are reading the silent majority of women are absolutely on your side!

hackmum · 11/07/2018 15:05

I have never been a fan of Brendan O'Neill, but he is absolutely right on this. A great piece, written with clarity and conviction. The one thing I can say for him is that he is always fearless - he doesn't care what people think about him. Of course, men writing about transactivism never receive the same abuse as women who do, but even so, well done.

ErrolTheDragon · 11/07/2018 15:19

It's definitely ok to use 'cis' in discussion, there have been a couple of threads recently with it in the title haven't there? And it's ok for anyone who wants to apply it to themselves to do so. Bute they can't then say 'and so are you'.

Anyway - if Alison Moyet wants to come and slum it with women here as a refuge from the nastiness of Twitter she'd be very welcome and no one will be allowed to isomerise her.

Datun · 11/07/2018 15:57

And yet we have (apparent) women here all denying that the misogyny even exists. Or is confined to a small handful of outliers.

Alison Moyet! Just saying she doesnt identify as something. Politely.

Getting abused and forced to comply on pain of further abuse.

This IS transactivism.

HopeMumsnet · 11/07/2018 16:21

Hi all! We've changed the title as requested. Sorry that the new guidelines are proving confusing on the issue of exact words and whatnot - just remember that we are all trying our best to be sensible and decent up at HQ and that we like you MNers (and you us, we hope, most of the time) and hopefully we'll not go too far wrong. Smile

HopeMumsnet · 11/07/2018 16:25
arranfan · 11/07/2018 16:40

You are very powerful HopeMumsNet - title change to DEATH in 3.5mins Smile

Please run a MN video tutorial on death ray stares and interventions. Even a Paddington Hard Stare would do.

LangCleg · 11/07/2018 16:44

OMG - Hope has her very own Mumsnet portal! It kills threads AND EVERYTHING!

Cadencia · 11/07/2018 16:54

Great article - thanks for sharing.

Love Alison Moyet!

HopeMumsnet · 11/07/2018 16:54

bless you both for posting, was beginning to feel quaite paranoid.

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