Lesbian activists block Pride in London march to protest against transwomen...

[gorgeoushazydaysofsummer]

Were they right?

I agree tiwht them saying that ‘Transactivism erases lesbians’.

But I'm not sure I agree with ‘A man who says he’s a lesbian is a rapist’

What do you think? Trying to get my head round all this.

I don't necessarily agree with the rapist statement. But I am concerned about the cotton ceiling.

Transwomen are not genetically women. They are transwomen. If they want to fuck women, then they're translesbians. Don't go think thinking you're the same as me! You're not an ACTUAL woman. Daft!

I am so relieved and proud and excited that this uprising is happening. COUNT THIS LESBIAN IN.

I do not think they were right. I do not agree with their view. I think their protest was inappropriate, divisive and added nothing to the debate.

@Eviecee totally agree with you.

Having been told multiple times via several different mediums this week that lesbianism is a "preference", homosexuality is an outdated medical term, and that homosexual women are transphobic if they do not include trans women with a penis in their pool of sexual interest, I would say this protest is absolutely necessary.
Homophobia is clearly on the rise and its becoming more acceptable to shame lesbians for being same sex attracted. In 2018 we are seeing women told to consider whether their sexual orientation is prejudiced against males.
Unbelievable.

OP I saw the video taken from the perspective of the protesters, it’s on YouTube. From what I saw a group of lesbians were coming out in support of lesbians as an identity group with its own needs and demands, some of which seem to be in conflict at present with the wider LGBTQ movement. To be a lesbian is to be part of a group that is protected under the law as a group who are defined by ‘single-sex’ agenda. However, from reading their material and other things on MN and other fora, there are groups and individuals who are redefining lesbian to mean ‘single-gender’ attraction. It seems that some lesbians (and I’m using the strict definition enshrined in law) are then being pressured to have sex with a particular group of people who say they are trans women and who retain a penis. Apparently, lesbians who refuse are then called transphobic (and in some cases far worse things as well as being threatened with violence). Interestingly groups/individuals identifying as trans men don’t seem to be doing this to gay men on the same scale (also a protected group under the law defined by single-sex not single-gender attraction). It seems that lesbians are being specifically targeted. I personally don’t think that any group/individual should be pressured to have sex they don’t want, particularly when that goes against their very sense of self, and I don’t think that pressure should be further reified as a form of ‘phobia’. From what I’ve seen and read there is a lot of support for their position/protest and I can see why.

OP also before Pride became a consumer/corporate event it was a protest, and there is a long history of Pride accommodating differing views and protests. So what these women did was actually very much in the spirit of Pride. You may not be old enough to remember but there was a period when a great deal of lesbians were separatist, they would not even sit in a room with men. They were not exiled from Pride or other events for having this political stance, they were respected for it, there were some debates around it. But they didn't get death threats or worse. Diversity and freedom of speech is part of Pride's heritage, it should be part of everyone's.

And from what I saw they did not say anything 'transphobic' they were criticizing the groups who've pressured them and they cited 'transactivists' not 'trans people' as the problem. They were also concerned about GNC girls who seem to have been steered directly towards a trans identity without considering they may actually be young lesbians. And this together with attempts to tell lesbians who they can/can't be attracted to, does sound like the 'lesbian erasure' they were protesting.

Who is pressuring lesbians to have sex with transwomen? And how?

Evicee I suggest you watch the video, read their material, look on Reddit and other forums where this is being discussed. Also found it interesting that the kneejerk reaction to the protest was they were 'anti-trans', not clear why being 'pro-Lesbian' is the same thing. Ask some lesbians on these forum what's happening in their communities.

OP I was really shocked by some of the stuff online and the threats being made against lesbians. Below is just a sample of Twitter accounts and sites where either threats are being made or people are representing threats made to them. Also was surprised that while lesbian protesters were being singled out as a problem, nobody said anything about people marching with base-ball bats apparently being sold to attack GC women/lesbians.

I also saw that there was a letter circulating condemning violence against women, but when the Labour Party LBTQ responded they just talked about the fact that the letter excluded mentions of violence against trans people, which should rightly be condemned but didn't say anything to discourage violence against women or other dissenting groups, shouldn't any violence towards anybody be condemned? I hate the far-right but I don't go around saying that means it's okay to attack and kill them.

Tweets and websites
Lil Prep 🙋🏻‍♂️‏ @FilipponiLevon Jun 27

PurpleBarnacle‏ @PurpleBarnacle Jun 19

Penny White‏ @unbreakablepenn Jul 4

🦉paleolithic witch 🦇‏ @DanaRipleyBosma Jun 29

www.autostraddle.com/how-to-have-trans-woman-lesbian-sex-with-a-penis-414839/amp/

womenarehuman.com/lesbian-expresses-fears-that-transextremist-hate-group-degenderettes-will-attack-lesbians-at-san-francisco-pride/

Lesbian Voices‏ @Lesbian_Voices Jun 4

not hayley‏ @kayleyhiyoko Jun 9

medium.com/@transphilosophr/what-is-girldick-9363515e0bfd

Can't quote anything as much too inflammatory/explicit for MN.

The autostraddle article quoted above is a guide to sex with transwomen. I can't see how it's pressuring cis lesbians to have sex with transwomen? It's information out there for those who might want it?

The degenderettes - this is unacceptable. But they are not representative of the majority of transwomen surely? Just as the protesters at Pride in London are not representative of every lesbian

The medium article about girld**k - again, how is this pressuring lesbians to have sex with transwomen?

I really want to understand what is motivating the group of lesbians who protested at Pride. I still don't get it. We need to be able to understand each other better. A real dialogue? I'm struggling to find one

There is a long thread on this on Feminist Chat perhaps that will help you, there seem to be a number from the lesbian community on that thread. I don't feel I can speak for them, only that personally I found the materials/arguments quite cogent.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301033-Get-the-L-Out-Statement-by-the-lesbian-protesters-at-Pride-London

I have read the thread. Still can't see it. I am bisexual, only had lesbian relationships until I was 38 (I'm now 42). I have lots of lesbian friends and none of them were in support of the lesbian protest at Pride. I clearly need to do some more reading.

I don't feel I can speak for them, only that personally I found the materials/arguments quite cogent.

Dottier, I am quite impressed with your comments here, and think you did rather well outlining most of the issues. Thank you.

*The degenderettes - this is unacceptable. But they are not representative of the majority of transwomen surely? Just as the protesters at Pride in London are not representative of every lesbian

I really want to understand what is motivating the group of lesbians who protested at Pride. I still don't get it. We need to be able to understand each other better. A real dialogue? I'm struggling to find one*

Some people on here would like you to think a small section of trans people are representative. They're clearly not. You can go searching for information within ANY social group, find examples of something you don't like, pile it all onto one forum or website and make anyone look bad. That is why I would say don't let this site, or the links that members here provide, be your sole source of information.
Some people would also like you to believe that the protesters at Pride and posters on here represent all lesbians. They clearly don't either. Look at the reaction online from lesbians to the protest... most weren't in favour. Also there have since been a number of letters (you can see them on the main feminism chat section) from feminists and lesbians distancing themselves from it and videos by lesbians saying they don't feel erased by trans people.
My advice would therefore be just look around for yourself and see what lesbians and trans people are generally talking about and then decide whether you feel that this site is giving a true message or distorting things.