To feel sad that I can no longer support LGBT+

[loveyouradvice]

Just that really

I realised this when DD wanted to talk about Pride and my instant reaction was to talk about the brave Lesbian protest about lesbianism being same-sex attracted..... and all my DD wanted to talk about was the joy and the fun and how all her mates had a really good time....

And I realised that has gone for me... being engaged with the L & G community when I was younger was such a rich part of my life...

And I feel very sad to have lost this... the joy and the support...

And yes, as I write this I can see how selfish this sounds ... that I am sad it is no longer simple, that my automatic and heartfelt support of anything L & G and of Stonewall is no longer there.... that it is now divided and controvesial

I have posted this in AIBU as well... but just wanted to share my sadness here, amongst kindred spirits, and I suspect many others feel it .... just the simple sadness as an emotion and a loss

It's sad that people are trying so hard to be 'woke' that they're not listening to the real issues women are talking about. So many young people on my FB and Twitter are saying how disgusting it is without even really knowing what the issues are?
I think most trans people are genuine and should be treated with respect but they need to understand the issues and stop being selfish. It's all very 'it's all about me I'm the most oppressed group' and there's no actual listening and unfortunately pride supports this. The whole 'I'm so woke' with no actual facts seems to be very damaging !

I think it would be wrong to stop supporting the community in general when many people are not blinkered and many more are open minded enough that interacting with other people might help them understand. Withdrawing support from all because of the actions of a loud and bullying few would be a backwards step.

I agree. Previously it was a no brainer - of course you support LBGT, Pride, Stonewall- don’t all decent people?

Now, notsomuch. The deep seam of misogyny that runs through the movement has become impossible to ignore. I support individual aspects of the movement and will defend the lesbians who bravely protested yesterday with my dying breath, but once you look past the sparkly rainbows and hearts it’s all a bit ugly.

The protesters' message was simple. Lesbians are women who are attracted to other women, not to men who identify as women. Yet it's unleashed a storm of vitriol and hate on Twitter. Very few people there are actually engaging with the protesters' argument. It's just being presented as 'anti-trans'.

This movement has gone the way of all past movements; women were involved at the start when their votes were needed, and at the end they are sold out.

I agree.

I am actively discouraging my kids from getting involved with LGBT clubs etc at school as it all seems so dangerous ATM. In a brainwashing cultish way.

Before I would have actively encouraged them to join and support.

This movement has gone the way of all past movements; women were involved at the start when their votes were needed, and at the end they are sold out.

This.

It's all very mainstream now - not so much pride now, but just a parade. Like St Patrick day/4th of July/Carnival with more sequins.

I guess I remember the olde days when it was more about rights (not 'wants').

It used to be more solidarity and 'we're in this together/with you' than the egocentric, tantrumming boys' 'I'm gonna punch you out if you disagree with me'.

Women have been pushed back again.

I agree with you. I still support lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and yes, trans people too, against prejudice and bigotry, and will fight for their safety and rights.

But the this is not longer the focus of Pride or Stonewall. Instead, LGBT groups have been hijacked by misogynists who are abusing society's support and goodwill in order to bully women, especially lesbians.

As mentioned, I will always support LGBT people but I am very cautious now of large LGBT organisations. They no longer represent the people who started them or need them.

NotTerf "The protesters' message was simple. Lesbians are women who are attracted to other women, not to men who identify as women."

Except it wasn't just that. The leaflet accuses the trans movement and LGBT politics as a whole of coercing lesbians to have sex with men. One banner said "Transactivism erases Lesbians".

It’s a great leaflet and great message

Ta for sharing again super dandy

Such a great leaflet!

Same here. I am a heterosexual but I’ve supported Gay rights since my teens. I remember the lesbian and gay support for the miners. Now , as a women, I have deep misgivings about the movement. I suppose now that homosexuality is so accepted, gay marriage is legal, these orgs have to keep themselves bankrolled, and trans activism framed as trans rights is the way they have chosen to keep their salaries going.
There has always been a seam of misogyny amongst some groups of gay men. I’ve heard pretty nasty stuff aimed at women when I’ve been in gay bars or clubs. Now that section has come to the fore, while preaching rights for all, they are actually trampling all over women’s rights. I am angry enough to not buy things from companies that support organisations like Stonewall.

Pride in London sorry after anti-trans protest
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44757403

This is a top story on BBC website:

Pride in London organisers have apologised after anti-trans protesters "forced their way to the front of the parade".
Members of lesbian and feminist group Get The L Out demanded to march behind the rainbow flag, which marks the start of the event, organisers said.
The group believes lesbian rights are attacked by the trans movement.
Pride said their behaviour on Saturday was "shocking and disgusting".
It said they could not forcibly remove the small group as their protest was not a criminal offence, adding "we are sorry".
A statement said: "The protest group showed a level of bigotry, ignorance and hate that is unacceptable.
"We reject what this group stands for. They do not share our values, which are about inclusion and respect and support for the most marginalised parts of our community.
"We are proud of our trans volunteers, proud of the trans groups that are in our parade, proud of our trans speakers at events and proud of the trans people who take part in our campaigns and proud of those who cheered even louder for them yesterday."

About what I would expect from Pride.

Fantastic that they admit they cannot remove pro women and lesbian protesters though. They should expect these protests to continue as long as they allow misogyny and abuse of women to flourish within their movement and take the side of the male cry bullies who are the source of it.

Shame on Pride and on all the supporters who are showing up this abuse of women.

Whilst reading this thread and agreeing with most posters, I came across this event: www.facebook.com/events/280991375972632/?active_tab=discussion
The sponsored facebook post says more

"Our Naked Truths invites all those who identify as women to create, connect and celebrate the universal feminine beauty through art and conversation.

This is a special session where we will create, network, discuss and connect with each other. Our theme will focus on The Root of it All modelled by Designer and Multi-Displinary Artist - Sandra Abode

Expect lots of discussion, freedom, love and above all a celebration of self! We simply ask that you come with an open heart and mind to create. *Racism, Ableism, Ageism, Sexism, Homophobia, Transphobia or Hatred of any kind will not be tolerated.

So I posted this, inspired by this thread:

"Sadly not for me. You lost me when you mentioned "all those who identify as women" and transphobia in the same post. Those who self id as women are not women (because that's biology) and I am not transphobic. In fact I am very supportive to people who change their full gender identity through gender reassignment. Their commitment to their new life is commendable and worthy of respect. And that is the difference: one is committed and the other is not. The other is about men telling women what they can believe and say and violence if they dont agree. It's akin to the behaviour from domestic abusers or rapists. #nothankyou. I am assuming your open heart and mind fully accepts lesbians who dont agree that dick is a female organ?"

I find all of this very hard. I am heterosexual, but like others, have actively supported gay rights for decades, and encourage my DC to be tolerant and to know that others will follow different paths. I feel so let down by my male homosexual friends. SirVix really says it all in their post. I will keep objecting but am very depressed by what is happening. No one in RL seems to get it.

Fantastic that they admit they cannot remove pro women and lesbian protesters though. They should expect these protests to continue as long as they allow misogyny and abuse of women to flourish within their movement and take the side of the male cry bullies who are the source of it.

This. They will.

I find all of this very hard. I am heterosexual, but like others, have actively supported gay rights for decades, and encourage my DC to be tolerant and to know that others will follow different paths. I feel so let down by my male homosexual friends. SirVix really says it all in their post. I will keep objecting but am very depressed by what is happening. No one in RL seems to get it.

Well said, and well done. It is hard to take a stand that everyone else disagrees with. But that's because very few people have thought about it that much

Er I typed “who are SHORING up this abuse of women “ and predictive text changed it to “showing”.

Instead, LGBT groups have been hijacked by misogynists who are abusing society's support and goodwill in order to bully women, especially lesbians.

^This^ a million times - and I cannot understand why more people can't see it - although misogyny is generally invisible and accepted so I shouldn't be surprised.

I had lunch with a gay friend today and we were talking about this. It made me so angry - he was taking the party line that it was "transphobia" and I was trying to tell him what the implications are for women in general and lesbians in particular. I think I was spoiling Pride for him - he hasn't marched for years but has fond memories of the event. He was talking about how life was for him as a young gay guy in the 80's - getting beaten up for his sexuality etc. - and how Pride brought everyone together under the banner of homosexuality. He absolutely didn't believe that transwomen are now expecting lesbians to accept them as sexual partners - and we got bogged down in the toilet debate too (he didn't realise that women do so much more in the toilet than pee and poo - why would he? He's a bloke).
I have work to do there....

I've always supported Pride as an event that promotes gay and lesbian rights/equality but now I think it's become another patriarchal vehicle for oppressing women in general and female sexuality in particular and is owned by big business - men, obviously.

Betty re toilet debate: I think this thread should be compulsory reading for all men:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3203454-What-do-you-use-the-womens-toilets-for

I’ve found it hard to suddenly be cast as a bigot- now I look at the other women involved in things like Women’s Place, and they are women with values like mine. They are women who have fought for equality, lesbians who fought section 28. Women who’ve been involved in trade unions. That it is so swift and easy for lefty men to shout “BIGOT!” at women like this, women with decades of supporting equality behind them, has opened my eyes to the misogyny that was there all along.
It suits men like this very well to not actually look at these women at all.

LGB organisations seem to be heavily influenced by heterosexual males insisting that sexual orientation is not a thing. I find it baffling. How did this happen?

It took decades of hard work to persuade society that sexual orientation is a thing.

It makes me really sad. I'm gay. I don't do dick and never will. My 18 year old stepdaughter believes I am disgraceful for not agreeing that lesbians should be open to having sex with men who identify as women. I'm not transphobic, but the hatred and bigotry this whole thing is causing is scaring the hell out of me.