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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is it time to do away with indecent exposure as a crime?

38 replies

Floorplan · 03/07/2018 23:25

After all Mrs May sees no problem.

OP posts:
Bespin · 03/07/2018 23:28

Indecent exposure is not a gendered crime though both men and woman can commit it. Though usually men do so

AnOpinion · 03/07/2018 23:30

Apparently a police force tweeted about this recently. They advised naked gardeners to alert neighbours first or you commit a crime and if neighbours stand on a chair to look over the fence the neighbour is committing a crime.

AssassinatedBeauty · 03/07/2018 23:35

How on earth can you say in one sentence that it isn't a gendered crime, and then go on to say that it is usually men/male bodied people who commit it? That's the definition of a gendered crime.

Battleax · 03/07/2018 23:36

Oh FGS, what has she said now?

I can just imagine what will happen if flashing is decriminalised.

Floorplan · 03/07/2018 23:37

My daughter was the victim of indecent exposure 2 years ago. It was awful. The case was taken to court as 9 other girls her age had also made recent reports (she was Year 8). He was caught because she had the wherewithal to remember his licence plate. He was successfully prosecuted and convicted based on several of the girl's testimonies. Thankfully these were recorded.

What was the point though? Some trans woman could come up behind my daughter at the local swimming pool tomorrow and waggle his erect dick at her just the same. To stop access to the pool by trans women, I'd have had to have shown that it was a proportionate means to a justified end or something. Which I haven't got round to unfortunately.

What's the difference between the two scenarios? TWAW. Our daughters clearly needs to learn the difference between a male dick and a "trans women are women"'s dick.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 03/07/2018 23:37

The OP didn't mention anything to do with gender (or sex, which would be more relevant to most people where this offence is concerned).

TerfAndSerf · 03/07/2018 23:39

Hell no YABU.

Indecent exposure is a crime and should remain so.

AnOpinion · 03/07/2018 23:39

Do they now teach children in biology that some have lady sticks?

Floorplan · 03/07/2018 23:41

Mrs May didnt say those exact words, but thats what she was saying to my mind, because saying youre happy to be in a changing room with trans women to me can mean my local pool where there are kids and people get literally naked.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 03/07/2018 23:44

I think the OP extrapolating from something on another thread. Something like, Mrs May said she wouldn't have a problem sharing a changing room with a transwoman but that she recognised that some women would and it was important for them to be consulted.
I'm very sorry about what happened to your DD, and absolutely that should not happen but I think you may be misrepresenting the whole of what May said.

Battleax · 03/07/2018 23:44

They’ve all drunk the koolaid. Mordaunt has been talking utter nonsense too.

I swear with a few million £ and a few stroppy voices you could successfully lobby for the Law of gravity to be repealed.

We should start a campaign for all women to get a room of their own and £500pa (1920s prices).

thebewilderness · 04/07/2018 00:03

Once males achieve the legal right to watch women disrobe in changing rooms all over the UK I suppose they need to do away with laws that make it illegal for them to masturbate while watching women disrobe.

HotRocker · 04/07/2018 08:43

So in decent exposure disappears as a crime, what next? Should we get rid of rape as well, because the person refusing to grant consent is hurting the man’s feelings?
Maybe we should make assault, GBH and murder permissible in some cases as well on the grounds of self defence from literal violence?
Yeah yeah I know, whataboutery, but what about if the world actually is going mad?
Now I’m just being hysterical.

TooTrueToBeGood · 04/07/2018 08:54

Indecent exposure is not a gendered crime though both men and woman can commit it. Though usually men do so

In my 50+ years on this planet I've personally known numerous women/girls who have been flashed by men and the majority were very upset by it. I can only recall one instance of female flashing at male. That was when a couple of young women flashed their boobs at me and my mates in the back of an army truck. We didn't feel threatened, intimidated or fearful it might escalate to sexual assault. So not only is it very much a gendered crime in terms of it being predominantly committed by men, it's also gendered in the sense that the impact it has on men, on the very rare occassions they are targeted, is infinitely less than it is on female victims.

AncientLights · 04/07/2018 08:55

Surely it will be de facto decriminalisation if this nonsensical law is passed. Legally some women will have a penis, they do now I suppose just that many more will after the amendments are passed into law, those 'women' will be in our changing rooms along with their dicks. We will have to tolerate it. Boundaries gone. Men not claiming to be women might still get done for it. Does Mrs May assume transwomen in her space will be dickless and/or gay do we know?

HotRocker · 04/07/2018 09:19

Consider this, two 15 year old girls walking home from school, and a man they don’t know flashes his cock at them. Now I can’t speak for every 15 year- old girl in the country, but I have a reasonable belief that they would be upset and frightened by this.
Switch it around, two 15 year old boys walking home from school and a woman they don’t know flashes her breasts at them. Now again, I can’t speak for every 15 year old boy in the country, but I imagine their reactions might range from amusement, to arousal, to bragging to their mates about what happened.
No discrepancy there then at all, in either the numbers of each sex perpetrating this crime or the impact of this crime dependent on the sex of the victim.

Lichtie · 04/07/2018 09:34

Hotrocker, would the same not apply to female teacher and male teacher having sex with pupils? The 15 year old boy would likely brag about it but it doesn't make what the female teacher did any more right.

Mossandclover · 04/07/2018 09:38

Floorplan I was worrying about the same. My (even younger) dd was also a victim of indecent exposure. Likewise, it was a horrible experience for her. I can’t help but think that if it had happened in a changing room my dd would have been a lot more vulnerable (possibly naked), but the twat in question could have carried on for longer and got away with it by simply saying ‘I am a woman’. If a man is allowed into woman’s changing rooms under any guise then there is no way to prove indecent exposure and you couldn’t even risk complaining for fear or being pursued for a ‘hate crime’. How can people not see this!!!

bebanjo · 04/07/2018 09:42

When I was at school in the 80s we had a visit from a WPC,
Giving safety advice?

She talked about flashers and told us, ' even if you are not bothered or even find it funny, tell your mates and have a good laugh about it, but then you must report it to the police because these men often go on to commit sexual assault.'

If it was true then, would it not still be true now?

Inkornoink · 04/07/2018 10:05

When I was running in the countryside one Sunday afternoon I passed a car in a layby with a man standing next to the hedge facing away from the road - I assumed he was having a pee. When he heard me approach he turned around and exposed himself with an erection and a huge smile on his face. I was terrified.

MsBeee · 04/07/2018 10:09

The insanity of this and double think beggars belief. I have been flashed at a few times. The first time as a 10 year old and then at 15. Both occasions where very frightening and icky.

It is not appropriate to normalise penis in female spaces where women are changing and naked. This is simply pushing women’s boundaries, until we have none.

How can we teach out daughters about safety when there is a double message that completely contradicts itself.

It is 100% appropriate for women , girls to remove them selves as fast as possible from the close vicinity ( hopeful it is possible) of a pensis, unless they have actively chosen to be there. This is not transphobic, it is about safely.

It is unfortunately based on the real experience of women.

It’s bad enough that we get bombarded with unsolicited dick picks on social media, dating sites, Snapchat etc.

Now we are supposed to just roll over and accept it in our private spaces.

Again I say, it is not acceptable to normalise thus.

also to say, that men and boys have a right to privacy too when in changing rooms.

I also don’t want, when I’m trying to clean up mess from my period . Yes it happens. Being a woman is a messy, smelly business sometimes.

Trans rights matter, but not when they totally centre the trans rights at the expense of everyone else.

It makes me so mad that in the name of avoid hurting peoples feelings I am reduced to referring to genitalia. This is dehumanising for all of us.

My hope is that there can be a calm debate about how to manage this. And trans have safe spaces too.

Mossandclover · 04/07/2018 10:10

If an offenders can get away with indecent exposure in a changing room then of course they will start to ‘push the boundaries’ to their offending....

HotRocker · 04/07/2018 10:14

Lichtie, quite apart from the fact that I wasn’t excusing anybody doing it, a teacher having sex with a minor is a different crime, and against the law for both the same and different reasons, e.g. having sex with a minor is against the law, a teacher having sex with a minor is against safeguarding guidelines, is exploitative because of the power imbalance, and breaks the contract between teacher and pupil.
I’m not quite sure why you threw this one in, because nobody is talking about this. It’s almost like you’re intentionally trying to derail.
Anyway, sorry to everyone else for taking up space with this. Buffers applied.

HotRocker · 04/07/2018 10:27

Moss, quite. The thing about serial offending I imagine in part, is that it’s addictive and gives you a rush. So Steve who is a bit of a perv and likes watching violent porn can change with women and girls and rather enjoys it, but what’s next? What about when he decides that this thrill isn’t quite enough? Is he going to ignore his impulses because he knows anything else is a crime?
It feels to me like they are trying to create safe spaces for men to offend. Honestly it really just does boil down to that.

MsBeee · 04/07/2018 10:28

Oh yes I forgot to say, what about women who for religious reasons would effectively be totally excluded.

Oh hang it. They need to be” educated “ according to Labours women officer LM.