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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Let's all pretend that transwomen are women

32 replies

Bi11yOneMate · 03/07/2018 21:49

Because otherwise some people's fragile sense of self will break.
That's the bottom line isn't it?

And they want to be treated as if they are women. But we are pretending they really ARE women so it can't be AS IF they are women.

When actually most women just want to be treated like a human. With the same courtesies and respect and rights as the other half of the population. There are a few situations where, due to biology, women need special provisions - space/facilities/dignity in dealing with menstruation, breastfeeding, childbirth.
Transwomen don't need that, will not have spent teen years anticipating or learning to deal with that. And unless they are really out of touch with reality can never expect to. And therefore is it any surprise that women may feel uncomfortable with transwomen around when dealing with the specifics of biology - menstruation/breastfeeding/childbirth/menopause.

Now if the transwomen is very low key and not directly involved in care - in the "just want to pee and leave" camp, then a lot of women don't make a fuss.
But lots still care.

Why is that so hard?

OP posts:
ResistanceIsNecessary · 04/07/2018 08:50

The definition of 'woman' is 'adult human female'. The definition of 'female' is 'a human being of the sex that can bear young and produce eggs'. In humans this is characterised by the presence of XX chromosomes.

If someone has been born with male sex organs and XY chromosomes then they are not, and can never be, a woman. Dressing as a woman, acting like a woman, calling yourself a woman, having surgery to look more like a woman and imitate their physical characteristics, will make you a transwoman.

You will always be a transwoman because you were born with XY chromosomes and male sex organs - even if the latter are surgically altered at a later date.

Biology is not a feeling. The definition of woman is based upon biological fact.

BertrandRussell · 04/07/2018 08:56

However, the specific circumstances where it does matter are ones where compromise is impossible. One group or the other just has to give way.

LangCleg · 04/07/2018 09:06

Let's not.

I can't think of any other way of putting it!

PeakPants · 04/07/2018 09:50

Agree with you Bertrand

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 04/07/2018 10:51

I am quite prepared, in my daily life, to treat transpeople as the sex they identify with, to use the names and pronouns they prefer.

I feel humiliated playing along with a charade like this. IME it has always felt like their power trip and my human right to be party to open, honest interaction has been compromised.

I feel like I am having to say the Emperor is wearing fine robes though his nudity is staring me in the face. Its degrading.

AngryAttackKittens · 04/07/2018 11:00

I am quite prepared, in my daily life, to treat transpeople as the sex they identify with, to use the names and pronouns they prefer.

I'll use whatever name the person introduces themselves with, but I'm not prepared to pretend that I think they're the sex that they clearly are not because it feels like being forced to participate in roleplaying that not only did I not consent to, the idea that I might not consent is considered irrelevant (other than possibly as a reason to punch me). I think roleplaying is fine when everyone involved is happy to participate, but it ought to be a strictly opt-in activity.

Also the whole idea of treating someone as the sex they say they are just sounds like sexist nonsense to me. What does that actually mean? Pull out their chair for them at the table if you're a man and they want to be a woman? Defer to their authority if they want to be a man? I just don't see any way that could play out that wouldn't be sexist and involve me treating them in ways that I wouldn't normally treat anyone.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 04/07/2018 11:09

I think roleplaying is fine when everyone involved is happy to participate, but it ought to be a strictly opt-in activity.

That's probably it. I hate roleplaying. It makes me feel like a twat.

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