Trans v Anorexia

[ConfessionsOfTeenageDramaQueen]

I think I made this comment on someone else's thread but I can't remember so giving it its own now.

(Also, I don't believe I've seen a thread on this already but apologies if there's been one.)

Anorexics, like those who are trans, believe there is something wrong with their body and they want to physically change it.

Psychologically there are also a lot of similarities between anorexia and gender dysphoria, particularly among teenage girls who are uncomfortable with the way their bodies are developing due to puberty. Also there are often (but not always) additional issues of depression, self-harm etc.

Given all of this, why does society do everything possible to stop teenage anorexics from changing their bodies (to the point of tube feeding them against their will) while trans-boys are encouraged to change theirs with hormones and surgery?

Don’t know OP but I totally agree with you. Having dealt with someone close to me with anoreixa the point of getting them better is to help them eat well, put weight back on and get their mind and body back to health. Anorexia really is about self-hating and choosing to change their body. We don’t at any point say “go on, starve yourself”.
Trans, I think is very similar. Why do we turn around and say change your body and change gender because you feel like it? I really don’t get it. I think we are doing a lot of damage as a society by giving kids hormones and surgery and generally accepting gender changes. We do not accept starvation and generally do everything we can to stop it. It’s very strange.

I know quite a number of trans people and their ‘cure’ was to change gender, they feel better and happy now and they aren’t going to die pretending to be a different sex. Where as the same cure for an anorexic would be to become so tiny that they die.

Yes but just because thin anorexics often die and trans people with SRS are basically physically healthy means nothing.

And I would dispute that GRS is as successful as it's hyped up to be. Firstly there seems to be a growing number of detransitioners; the people whose operations leave them with painful fistulas etc, are they really going to go on TV to tell us about it like those with successful operations do; I've heard that following SRS a lot of trans people are still depressed and suicidal

I know quite a number of trans people and their ‘cure’ was to change gender, they feel better and happy now and they aren’t going to die
So why oh why are trans people constantly saying there's such a high rate of suicide amoungst trans people if changing gender makes them 'so happy'.
Becoming very thin makes an anorexic 'very happy' too but the rates of suicide are extremely high.

One expression of depression is becoming trans in the same way an expression of depression is becoming anorexic, imo.

Opheliah - I understood that only 1 in 5 anorexia deaths were due to suicide

www.webmd.com/mental-health/eating-disorders/anorexia-nervosa/news/20110711/deadliest-psychiatric-disorder-anorexia

I know quite a number of trans people and their ‘cure’ was to change gender, they feel better and happy now

The rates of mental illness (regardless of source) in transpeople are unaltered after affirmative/surgery/hormone treatment.

So no, it doesn’t appear to ‘fix’ anything.

Aridane
OK, suicide is the leading cause of death amoungst people with eating disorders which encompasses more than anorexia, my mistake.

1 in 5 is extremely high.

Ah, OK

I know quite a number of trans people and their ‘cure’ was to change gender, they feel better and happy now and they aren’t going to die pretending to be a different sex.

Suicide rate is the same post transition as it is pre transition.
There are quite a significant number of detransitioners however.

I'm just thinking out loud about this analogy...If someone could facilitate me living out my disordered thoughts and living life at a very low weight - through vitamin injections, very low calorie protein and fibre or something - I would probably go for it. However, if that were on the table as a treatment, I can still objectively see the healthiest option would be to work on the mental side first.

I would suggest that your willingness to accept that is not unrelated to the lack of organizations putting out press releases about how not eating is the best way to become your true self, and govt/media going along with their suggestions.

I think eating disorders have a number of causes and I do think culture plays a huge part.

Reading the thread I noticed lots of people saying if you treat gender dysphoria physically you save lives but treat anorexia the same way and the patient will die. My scenario was an attempt at a closer analogy.

And so was mine.

What they have in common, eating disorders and gender dysphoria, is that the desire to self harm is a symptom.

To be clear, I'm agreeing with OP. I think the healthiest thing in both cases (even if, hypothetically, you could treat anorexia by giving the patient what they want physically) is to treat the mental disorder as much as possible.

Its worrying that some people seem to think if someone has gender dysphoria the first port of call is hormones and surgery without proper therapy.

Ah, I get you aak.

I'm really glad I have missed this thread there is no comparison between to two conditions only on the most superficial level to people who have never worked with someone with this condition. Stop trying to take complex conditions and make them simple they are not and they are not simple to treat or even always successful and by making this part of your debate you are belittling this condition and the people who suffer from it. Stop trying to use mental illness in this way. If and it is a big if people who actually understand these conditions want to discuss them then there are better places to do that. Please stop playing armchair psychiatrist I have enough dealing with the real thing at work never mind on here lol (that's for all the mental health practitioner's out there.)

Okay Bespin you suggest you work with people going through trans issues, however you are not the only person working with people with these issues and there is not one way to view it. It is actually viewed as a mental illness and not everyone who sees a child or adult wanting to transition, supports the idea. Surprisingly to you maybe. there are many reasons why. So you yourself only have one of many views. (I think that’s what this whole debate forgets).

Some people believe your belief does more damage by encouraging transition. Only the long term picture of this is going to show us the truth though isn’t it? And while you are at it m, where are the statistics that say hormones and operations to change gender actually work? There are not many stats but the stats I’ve seen actually show the opposite - there is more damage being done by surgery and transition.
Similarly many well known psychologists from the 1950s and 1960s did experiments on humans, with devestating effects on people. And it took many years for this to play out before people realized actually how traumatic it was.
Now I get you want to follow the current “norm” of encouraging people (and children) to change gender, because they've decided they want to change gender. Fair enough. However, I am not going to be surprised as we watch all this unfold and backfire on us all. Good luck in the meantime.

Ah, I get you aak.

I wasn't trying to be cryptic, honest! Just to avoid the banhammer of doom for being too direct.

Have you had both conditions Bespin? I wonder if anorexia, then, is a condition you 'actually understand'? If people can only enquire about conditions they have lived experience of, then I guess you must have had a restrictive eating disorder in order to tell people what it is and isn't like.

I stand by my assertion that physical treatment shouldn't be the first port of call.

AAK, I think I was just worried that I was being cryptic and then was just really slow at posting so missed your post at first.

Why's it so hard for me to discuss this with any clarity ?! Obvs, if re-feeding is urgent then an anorexic needs physical treatment first but there's very important work to do on mental health as well. I think itsalmostsummer makes good points.

I'm going to stop caining this thread now . Night all.

Sleep well! Also remember that it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with an unreasonable person, ie. it's not you that's the problem.