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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Heads up to all ManFriday members

443 replies

SwearyG · 29/06/2018 23:08

Our membership list has been leaked online.

Please do what you need to in order to keep yourselves safe.

OP posts:
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13
Agrona · 30/06/2018 17:49

Agreed, Rufus.

crayoladreamz · 30/06/2018 17:58

I hadn’t got round to joining but FUCK YOU I’m joining now. Don’t give a shit if I’m doxxed. How do I sign up?

R0wantrees · 30/06/2018 18:10

crayola this is a link to the #Manfriday website page 'how to take part':

manfridayuk.org/take-part/

MrsWooster · 30/06/2018 18:26

Badges! Shopping bag! Things to buy to show support and I can confirm that the leaflets are concise and clear and can be double side printed after a lot of farting about with which way to put the paper back in and left in chaps' places on a Friday- by you if you're feeling brave or by a friendly chap. The more knowledge spread the better.

DietCoke87 · 30/06/2018 18:38

I need to stop using Twitter otherwise I'm going to lose faith in humanity... Hope no one on the list is put in any danger or loses employment opportunities. Surely the doxxer and the people sharing the leaked data can see the dangers of distributing the names of people defending women's' rights online (whether they agree with the actions of some ManFriday members or not)... I mean, there are so many MRAs and anti-feminists out there that collect this data and target/harass any woman they think is a feminist (they want revenge for the success of the Women's liberation movement) and has the audacity to share pro-women political views online. Most of those men don't care about trans rights either way, so not sure what the TRAs are celebrating.

proudestmumm · 30/06/2018 19:11

Right so. You actually think that because ManFriday, which is a campaigning group, was primarily set up on FB, the rules of GDPR don't apply in the event of a data breach?

Or am I reading this wrong?

proudestmumm · 30/06/2018 19:13

Suggestion: if you're struggling to contact us all, would if help if those of us who are on here & have seen your posts, PM you to say 'I'm X on FB, already aware, you can cross me off the list to contact'?

DO NOT FUCKING DO THIS.

thebewilderness · 30/06/2018 19:13

I really find it helpful when R0wantrees acts as the FWR wiki, linking to related discussions on here and related posts elsewhere. She's a really dedicated foot soldier for FWR and I know I'm not alone in appreciating her efforts.

It's lovely, isn't it. My rememberer is so like a sieve these days that ROwantrees links and reminders are invaluable to me.

R0wantrees · 30/06/2018 19:15

Its quite a long thread so I thought it maybe useful to combine Manfriday's key comments:

Sweary posted:
Hi everyone, I've been contacted by someone to make sure you're aware of the following:

  1. Being a member of a feminist activist group is not grounds for an employer to start any disciplinary proceedings
  1. Having gender critical/feminist beliefs is protected by the Equality Act. Employers may not discriminate against people with these beliefs
  1. ManFriday activism is intended to highlight institutional failures to invoke sex exemptions as set out in the Equality Act. If an employee is treated badly at work due to this then their employer is victimising them.
  1. Any trouble contact their union for support
  1. If not in union then post in Mumsnet and we can find legal advice and support

More from our legal bod:

Advice

  1. Contact your employer first thing and tell them you have been doxxed.
  1. Explain that MF is a group set up to protest regarding institutional failures to invoke sex exemptions set out in the Equality Act. Your concerns are primarily about safeguarding.
  1. You are concerned that your employer may be targeted by people who oppose the implementation of sex exemptions and who disagree about safeguarding
  1. You are happy to assist the company in responding to any allegations thrown at it but suggest that the company’s reply should be that it respects the rights of its employees to express their feminist beliefs whilst it may not hold those beliefs itself.
  1. As before: any problems with employer then please get in touch
  1. If feeling bold: ask your employer to endorse the application of sex exemptions in the event that they are implemented as a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim
R0wantrees · 30/06/2018 19:17

& this update from Yesitsadebate

"Hello everyone,

As a follow-up to Sweary’s post, this is what has happened and what we’re doing about it:

  • A person who we have had concerns about for several months appears to have joined the #ManFriday group using a sock account/ been passed screenshots by a sympathiser. They then had a screenshot posted on Twitter by a TRA account.
  • The #ManFriday admin team took action to remove over 100+ people from the group: anyone who had not been actively posting or who had joined the group recently.
  • We then explained on here, on the FB group and to the people directly affected what had happened. The post from the FB group was then taken by this person, we assume, and we received a message via the #ManFriday website threatening police action. This person also posted a couple of rants on the Mumsnet thread, which were swiftly deleted by MNHQ as from a PBP.
  • This person then published the stolen #ManFriday membership list (incomplete), which was tweeted by a TRA account. We were made aware of this PDQ, reported the tweets and alerted then closed the group as we couldn’t be sure of our members’ privacy.
  • This person then set up a couple of Twitter accounts to direct accusations at Mumsnet and #ManFriday. As the Tweets indicated that the person was threatening self-harm and behaving erratically, I called the police, who conducted a welfare check.
  • Statements have been made to the police today.
  • The IPO are also being contacted today, as a precaution. It’s Facebook who holds the leaked data rather than us but we want to do the right thing.
  • We’re contacting the people on the list as quickly as we can but as we aren’t FB friends with everyone, it’s not a simple exercise. Sweary posted on here to try to get the message out quickly to as many people as possible.

It’s a crap situation and I’m so sorry to everyone who’s worried or who is now being targeted online. Tweets targeting people’s employers are being reported as soon as we spot them.

If anyone is worried in particular, please do send me a FB message and I’ll try to respond ASAP."

RaininSummer · 30/06/2018 19:27

My name is on the list but not my employer. Tbh I dont think my employer would have the foggiest idea what was going on if a tra contacted them. I certainly didn't bully the person said to be behind the doxing. I am going to do nothing at this point but really appreciate the MF head honchos advice and efforts to minimise the fallout. I am not at all ashamed of my involvement or my views so will not be running scared.

ApplesinmyPocket · 30/06/2018 20:06

"She's a really dedicated foot soldier for FWR and I know I'm not alone in appreciating her efforts."

You're definitely not! I too very much appreciate ROwantrees('dedicated foot soldier' was a lovely choice of words!)

R0wantrees · 30/06/2018 20:24

You're very kind... I think we all do what we can.

PurpleCrowbar · 30/06/2018 20:36

Why not, proudestmummy?

I accept it could be a fucking stupid thing to do if you're worried about MN & FB names bring linked, as i said in the post, but personally I'm quite happy to be 'known'. What am missing?

My name is already on a list doing the rounds on Twitter etc - I've seen it - I'm no worse off if it's linked to my MN name.

Not having a go, just curious as to what I'm being dim about!

ScrubTheDecks · 30/06/2018 21:40

Misty “scrub why not tell them anyway?”
Hmmm, I suppose because they didn’t ask for their name to be splashed all over Twitter and it’s not my business to know unless she chooses to tell me.

But maybe I will, in a sort of ‘I’m Spartacus ‘ solidarity way.

SuperDandy · 30/06/2018 21:48

proudestmumm "Right so. You actually think that because ManFriday, which is a campaigning group, was primarily set up on FB, the rules of GDPR don't apply in the event of a data breach?

Or am I reading this wrong?"

No, and yes.

Let me try again.

If you sign up for fb you accept their t&c and fb is the primary data controller and processor wrt to data you give them.

Admins of fb groups are not responsible for content in their groups or data of group members in terms of GDPR.

Part of the t&c say things to the effect that they (fb) can share your data with partners in some circs, and that everything you post belongs to them.

It also says it's down to you to keep your privacy settings how you want them, and that the only bit that HAS to be public is your name, and that certain other parts of your profile are public if you fill them in - e.g. Workplace, university, location etc.

Groups are not private conclaves within fb, they are just a mechanism for sharing certain posts amongst a group of users selected or monitored by group admins. There is nothing in the t&c or community guidelines that I can find that says you cannot manually write a list of who is in the group by their fb usernames and share that list outside the group, so the person who shared the list does not seem to have broken any fb t&c.

Fb is not going to regard the the sharing of a list of the public profile info of usernames of fb users belonging to a certain group as a data breach. Nor is the ICO going to give a hoot about the person who chose to share the list of usernames that are members of an fb group.

What it boils down to is that being a closed or secret fb group gives an illusion of exclusivity and privacy, but in reality, stuff you put in a group, or the fact of your username belonging in that group, is just as much FB property as everything else in there, and you signed away your right to privacy on the public parts of your profile when you accepted the t&c, whether you read them or not, just like you signed away exclusive ownership of images you share etc etc.

Fb is not a good place to hold conversations you think should remain private. It's a bit like mn in that respect. Everything here can end up in the DM or anywhere else mn chooses to permit to share it, complete with any publicly available info you include in your profile.

If that sort of thing bothers you then you really should read the t&c when you sign up to places. Luckily, GDPR does actually encourage companies like mn and fb to do betterment at making their t&c findable, readable and clear, so that's good. Fb in particular have done a massive overhaul on their setup and it's way more readable now.

If it's a group whose membership must remain secret, don't host the group on Facebook, because there is no obligation on the platform or any individual member to not disclose the usernames of other members of the group. It's the nature of the platform, in its DNA, that people can find each other and view one another's public profiles.

Anyway, by all means go ahead and report their asses to the ICO. I will be happy to stand corrected if it turns out I'm wrong. I'm just trying to save your wasting your time on a massive red herring that will get you nowhere.

GDPR is a piece of legislation that has been whipped up by the media, distorted, misunderstood, and used by unscrupulous lawyers to take advantage of less than savvy businesses, including major players who should know better. It doesn't surprise me to see to bandied around here as the panacea to all data ills. It's a lot like the millions of times organisations have said they couldn't do whatever because data protection, which was frequently utter bollocks too.

That was long.... I'm sure it was utterly fascinating though. I don't think I've got the energy to try again if it's still not getting across, so I'll leave it there. No one will be harmed if you go on and do all the reporting you like, so honestly I'm not even sure why I'm troubling to save you the bother. Never mind, I've typed it all out so might as well post. Go knock yourselves out and report away. Let me know how you get on if you get a chance.

R0wantrees · 30/06/2018 21:58

I think the more pressing issue SuperD is the doxxing / redoxxing that's going on in parts of Twitterland by TRAs.

SuperDandy · 30/06/2018 22:01

I completely agree R0, and in fact I said that way back in my first post on the topic.

R0wantrees · 30/06/2018 22:05

Sandy Draws Badly

Heads up to all ManFriday members
Waddlelikeapenguin · 30/06/2018 22:17

Thanks for that tweet Rowan Flowers

SwearyG · 30/06/2018 22:25

Anyone reading this, whether they're a ManFriday-er or not may benefit from the following suggestion. Change your facebook URL to separate yourself from the ones that have been shared.

Instructions here

OP posts:
Writersblock2 · 30/06/2018 22:26

Well done, Sweary. You must be having one hell of a day trying to help everyone. Drink for you! Wine

BeyondRaggydoll · 30/06/2018 22:35

Sweary Wine Wine Wine

SasBel · 30/06/2018 22:35

Right, found the list and reported the tweet. Bastards.

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