Penny Mordaunt piece by Gabby H

[Pratchet]

www.the-pool.com/news-views/politics/2018/26/Gaby-Hinsliff-on-Penny-Mordaunt-and-trans-rights

Did anyone post this? Haven't read it yet myself.

Oh dear! I just read it. Sorry I posted it now, it's just a load of old shite.

I think it says lots about the target audience. Young women who are on board with woman not meaning woman anymore. What a load of drivel.

It really is completely incoherent. Not worth the click, folks.

I read it yesterday and was too ragey to dwell on it and post a link. The implication that objecting to the erasure of women as a class is a fuddy-duddy, pearl-clutching stance adopted by older women is fucking disgraceful tactic to get young women to capitulate. Lazy, insulting and shameful.

"Woke Girls! Don't trouble yourselves issues around dignity and privacy and safety... Sticking up for women's rights is as fashionable as M&S polyester slacks! Avoid!"

Thanks for the warning - I won't read it.

The implication that objecting to the erasure of women as a class is a fuddy-duddy, pearl-clutching stance adopted by older women is fucking disgraceful tactic to get young women to capitulate

What they fail to see is that there is always a younger crowd behind them thinking that they are the old fuddy duddies.

It may be a while before older women stop feeling erased and annoyed by initiatives like the recent cancer-charity advert reminding "anyone with a cervix” to get a regular smear test (worded to remind trans men that they may still need screening and that GPs may not always remember to call them in).

This rather misses the point for me. 1. The wording of the advert is a problem because it won't make sense to a lot of women and they will miss out on an important health screening.

1. The implication that removing language used to describe biological women is only problematic because some older women 'feel erased' by it and that this will change as progress marches on is ridiculous.

There's also the middle class bubble problem which has tripped up Hinsliff before. It doesn't occur to her that poor, low income, abused women will suffer. Or, maybe it has and she doesn't care. But on the whole I think it just doesn't feature in her life. Her social and professional group is much more likely to have trans people on the periphery than female prison inmates or women who need DV refuges and homeless shelters. She obviously doesn't look far beyond that.

It also makes it very clear that it makes no sense to have a Minister for Women also fighting for trans rights. The two are in direct opposition.

There's also the middle class bubble problem which has tripped up Hinsliff before. It doesn't occur to her that poor, low income, abused women will suffer

This is spot on.

It may be a while before older men stop feeling annoyed and erased by the fact that the privilege they are so used to does not give them the right to erase the rights of women.

Fixed that for her.

It may be a while before older women stop feeling erased and annoyed

gabby i am nearly a decade younger than you. i suggest you get out there and talk to people who have been affected by female cancers, people for whom english is a second language and people from different social backgrounds than your own.

it is not just about "feeling" erased and annoyed. it is also about actually missing the very people who need to hear the advice. and the result of that is, well, potentially more premature deaths.

every trans man knows they were born with a female anatomy and that the word woman, when talked about in a health setting, could apply to them.

not every woman knows what a cervix is.

I didn't think it was too bad for a piece in The Pool

It did at least recognise that there is more to the issue than TWAW, and that single sex spaces exist for a reason.

Though I agree that her blind spots are glaringly obvious

With journalists like this I wonder - why did you become a reporter? Wasn't it 'to tell the truth'? Isn't that what most journalists yearn for? Most seem to be happy to be peopaganda outlets. Whose dream is that?

Her social and professional group is much more likely to have trans people on the periphery than female prison inmates or women who need DV refuges and homeless shelters

Really good point

I know younger people who are gc. They absolutely exist, they just aren't that vocal given they're as wirried about everyone else as being branded bigots

I would love to know:

What are the rights Gaby thinks trans people should have that they don't already have?

Does she believe this would have any impact on other groups rights, and if so what would that be and does she think it matters?

What is Gaby's definition of a transwoman?

If someone can tweet those to her I would be very grateful.

Existential crisis comes to mind when I read links like this.

Penny Mordaunt was brilliant regarding the result in the Irish Referendum. Her tweet was ace.

twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1000151089637986310?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-44266135

Sorry forgot the link.

Her social and professional group is much more likely to have trans people on the periphery than female prison inmates or women who need DV refuges and homeless shelters.

This is bang on. It's also very true of people like Laurie Penny, I think, for whom identity politics is everything and who barely register the existence of vulnerable poor people. So women in prison, women in refuges, homeless women just don't feature. Even the one issue that might affect middle-class educated women - sport - is probably something she doesn't give a damn about. If it doesn't affect her, she doesn't care.

every trans man knows they were born with a female anatomy and that the word woman, when talked about in a health setting, could apply to them.

not every woman knows what a cervix is.

I find it bizarre that you think a group of men is more likely to realise that they need a cervical smear than women in general do. Maybe you can explain, for example, how someone socialised as a woman but who doesn't realise he needs a cervical smear suddenly comes to the realisation that he needs one as soon as he transitions to a male social role?

There is an awful lot of vacuous shite in The Pool. Thanks for reading it so I didn't have to

Snappity - are you being deliberately goady or just obtuse?

You know full well that the point being made is that a transman knows that literature talking about "women's health" may well also apply to them, but a woman coming across literature on "people with a cervix" might not know that it's probably relevant to them

It's almost as if you are posting stuff to try to elicit responses along the lines of "but transmen are women", so you can report posters and get them banned.... But as that would be a despicable thing to do, and you keep assuring us that you are posting in good faith, that couldn't possibly be the case?

How about people with a testicle with cancer Snappity; is the campaign 'check your balls' trans exclusive? No people involved here.

www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/testicular-cancer/getting-diagnosed/finding-early

But FtM people are female. They're women who identify as men. That's what the term conveys. I don't think MN guidelines forbid us from saying that. It's not exactly rocket science.