Bringing Title IX to the UK

[Norther]

Okay. So obviously the title is a bit silly because we don't have the same college sport scholarship set up as the USA but what do people think about campaigning for our own version?

E.g. schools have to offer the same number of sports teams for girls as well as boys. Newspapers have to (or commit to the idea at least) do same number of articles on women focused sporting events as on mens.

It would be quite a simple thing to campaign for (though maybe not to accomplish). Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I think what concerns me is that we already have equality in law, but its so easy to ignore the law. So how many laws do we need to get people to act fairly?

Interesting idea. I am getting increasingly miffed about the fact that women are obviously excluded from men's professional sports and yet every man I meet seems to expect me to know and care about eg premiership football.

When I discuss this with men I know they always seem to have a depressing attitude and say that the quality of women's football is so poor that it's not worth watching (although DH will happily watch non-league men's football where the quality doesn't seem brilliant ), but if it's not promoted then there will be no money in it and things will never improve.

So, anyway, I'd support this OP.

Upstart

I know what you mean. It is so frustrating. I was thinking from the angle of, rather than having the right to have equal opportunity to things like sport, compelling institutions to have equal numbers involved. I know it is controversial to some but in the USA, colleges and elsewhere have to give the exact same number of college scholarships for sport to female athletes as well as male. Because they give out so many to male footballers and basketball players, it has led to an explosion in opportunities for female athletes in other sports over there. Could we aim for something similar over here and say, for example, if the school has three boys sports teams then they must run three girls teams as well. Or at junior school a team must consist of equal numbers of boys and girls. Then people can't use the excuse that girls just aren't interested - if they wanted a team they would have to make them interested and be welcoming. Perhaps relays should be half male/half female as standard. These are just ideas. It could be something people could campaign for on an individual institution basis or a newspaper could be encouraged to commit to writing 50 percent of sports content on womens sport, certainly online where you are not restricted by space on a page. Any thoughts?

Thanks Ally

I think I am going to draft some ideas and contact my daughter's school/speak to other mothers there about it. The reaction might give me a sense of how workable this would be.

I'd love to hear ideas from others with suggestions or good practices they are aware of. Anyone with experience of doing something similar?

It would be completely ignoring the reality of Sport. Sport is mainly men watched by men because the average man is faster, stronger and more competitive than the average woman. Men also have more free time unfair and something I personally fight on a daily basis but leaving that aside. To believe that increasing chances, coverage and funding Of women in sport will magically make that even out is a lovely idea but delusional and quite frankly far too nanny state for me. You can't tell people what to watch, what to buy it's wrong.

I do think making schools give equal opportunit it's is a fantastic idea though and am quite shocked we don't do that already

InfiniteSheldon

Actually the things I suggested wouldnt cost anything to implement and possibly if womens sport were taken more seriously by men, predicated by the fact that mens sport wouldnt be able to take place unless womens sport were itself taken more seriously, then maybe more women would have the confidence to allocate it more of their attention. Also, sport is not just about the fastest and strongest, a lot of it is tactical and skills based and also only one person can be the overall fastest - must he race on an empty track without competitors?

I'm not having a go. Just counter arguing.

I think women's tennis is an interesting example. The prizes are afaik now the same and the coverage is usually fairly equal. People take women's tennis a lot more seriously than eg women's football. I'm sure a few men will still be a bit sniffy about it but it's generally respected.

The increased coverage has led to increased interest in women's sport over the last few years.

More and more sports companies are sponsoring / doing advertising campaigns with women - that's not forced - they will only spend if they believe they will get teh returns.

There is also a point that I noticed. I never thought I was interested in team sports, found them dull. Recently I have caught a few women's rugby matches on the telly and really enjoyed them. I would say it makes sense to get more involved when it's "people like you" doing whatever it is. This could explain why so many men are deeply uninterested in women's sport unless they look fuckable while doing it. However, women are 50% of the population and we have spendind power, so even if the men aren't interested, no reason for this to hold anything back.

On the Title IX thing, it got changed didn't it to say equal gender representation rather than sex, by Obama? So if it's about improving chances for cunty people, it won't work. Although I think there are legal things ongoing in USA around this.. Not sure of the detail.

"E.g. schools have to offer the same number of sports teams for girls as well as boys. "

"am quite shocked we don't do that already"

Loads of posts I've read on here with things like eg school has 3 hard surface outdoor sports type areas (don't know what they're called, not sporty!) and they are all turned over for the boys to play football at break times. Stuff like that which seems practical to the school, has a big impact in terms of messaging to boys and girls about what they "ought to" do in their spare time, who is more important (boys given all the space) and so on.

Norther

Thinking about this you are right. Its worth pursuing this, if only to highlight the inequality.

Thats a good example Ally. Though I think I read recently there were comments about not putting as many womens games on wimbledon centre court because of the presumption that womens tennis wasnt as good (or something) as mens. I think the opposite. I think womens tennis is more watchable. Anyway, it shows that a kind of parity can be achieved with the will behind it.

I think overall my focus is probably more on mass participation at the recreational (especially school) level, with that hopefully feeding into better representation at the professional level further down the line.

Sardines

You are so right. You just made me think back to my time at school and yes every hard surface was taken over by boys football at breaktime even though there was actually a full size grass football pitch. Girls were relegated to shuffling around on wet grass at the fringe. I agree that the implications go beyond sport.

Yes tennis is a great example of how things are starting to equalise and I live women's rugby I just really meant telling newspaper s or broadcasters, private enterprises that they HAVE to give equal coverage is a step too far.

Counterarguments are always welcome to me OP I didn't mean to come across as not believing in women's sports just the way we strive to achieve it.

I wouldn't worry about it.

The way things are going there will be no women's sport in a couple of years, so equality will mean shit.

InfiniteSheldon

No offence taken! I love rugby, too. Let me just think out loud for a second using this as an example. Our local community rugby (league) team is mixed sex until high school age. It is not quite 50/50 but there is good female representation in the side (who incidentally are much better than the boys!) When the teams split around age 12, the girls fall away it seems. Now perhaps (I know this is a big hypothetical) if there were required to be a girls team in order for the boys team to, for example, take part in competition, a number of things might happen: scheduling of girls practices would be central not just an afterthought; active recruitment of girls would happen; and then - what i consider the big stuff - it would not be in boys interest to tease or sexually harass girls participating because it would jeopardise the existence of the whole boys' team and so they would hopefully police their own and each others behaviour. I think a lot of girls are driven away from sport by teasing, especially in those high school years.

Maryzsnewaccount

Maybe my suggestion of compulsory mixed relays would be a possible solution to that. If all four person relays in all sports (already starting to be introduced in top level swimming and track) were two male/two female, then if they wont listen to women about how unfair what I think you're implying is, then maybe they will listen to male athletes when they complain about the status of some of the 'women'.

Wellllll

The BBC got clobbered for sex inequality

And as a public service broadcaster they made a commitment (had to) to be more equal - result is we see many more women on the TV in certain things including sport. At the winter olympics it seemed quite often to be a woman presenter and 2 or 3 women competitors / experts talking which I am sure would never have happened 10 / 20 years ago.

Women's competitions at the Olympics etc and also other sports are also being shown more. I am not sure why this is, whether from inside the broadcasters and being pushed to be more even, or whether it's from demand (women's sport increasing in popularity with viewers) etc, it's probably a combination.

When I was young I remember we had 4 TV channels and on Saturday after the kids TV it often felt like 1 channel had hoseracing all day, 1 channel hours of motor racing, 1 channel football / rugby and the last one something else... I think it was a combination of a lot of these events happening at the weekend + maybe something to do with men work during the week, so at the weekend they need "their" telly, while daytime in the week was very much aimed at things that women were supporsed to enjoy. Not sure whether these things are shown less, or across more channels, but on the main 5 channels I don't think you get this wall to wall very male-centred sport over the weekend any more.

That was in response to sheldon.

Sardines

It is definitely a lot better than it used to be but I do worry its a case of 'chuck them a bone'.

I think the big change in viewing was sky sports and paid for sports channels that's when I stopped watching football as there were other things I would prioritise

Infinite

There is definitely a much larger variety of sports available on the paid for channels including womenz sports but it is not making it into the sports reporting sections in mainstream media. Lots of young people wouldnt even know it was out there. Why cant mainstream media voluntarily commit to coverage of these sporting events that are actually taking place even if only in the form of online reporting. At the moment it is something like 90 percent mens football. During the olympics they cover all the sports, but these sports are going on all the time. My first priority would still be grass roots mass participation parity as opposed to concentrating on elite level coverage.

Well, since it increasingly seems that people with a penis can be choose to be a woman (and vise versa), I'm sure it won't be long before all competitive sport for women and girls will be absolutely meaningless.

I really like seeing all the other sports at the olympics both summer and winter.

It would be great if they showed a greater variety year-round, that goes for both mens and womens sports.

Much more inspiring for youg people too, and probably not so young ones as well, to see the variety of what is out there, and all the different sorts of people doing it.

Although colleges have to have equal numbers of sports teams, the male sports are very much dominant in terms of profile within colleges and coverage - I can watch (men's) college basketball on the TV, for example, on a regular basis but the only time I see women's college sport is when there is coverage of athletics or swimming or gymnastics, when men are also competing and being shown