Why do social services take away the children instead of the violent man?

[chaoticgood]

Call me naive but I had never really considered before how a common reason for removing children from their homes & separating them from their mothers is that the mother "refuses to leave" their violent partner and the children are considered to be in danger from the man. I saw a documentary about this recently and then looked into it more and I am absolutely shocked that men who are considered a danger to children are so often allowed to remain in normal society while the child and the mother are forcibly separated, causing immense trauma to both, and the child is put into care with all the known disadvantages that brings.

I don't know why everyone is not shouting from the rooftops about the absolute inhumanity and insanity of this. If a man is a danger to children why is he not locked up? People who are a danger to themselves and others are supposed to be sectioned under the mental health act, I thought. If they are a man and the "others" to whom they are a danger are their partner's children then what, that's ok because boys will be boys, and we should remove the child from the danger instead because the danger itself is just how the world is and can't be helped, we can only try to get out of its way?

It seems to me that the assumptions behind this practise and behind the acceptance of it are:

1. Male violence is a fact of life, like the weather. It's a mother's job to protect her child from these things, and if she does not manage it she does not deserve to keep the child.
2. Men are entitled to abuse their partner and their partner's children. A man who goes next door and assaults his neighbours will be in prison or sectioned but in His Own House Under His Roof the rules are different.
3. Women "choose" to remain with violent men for the sheer fun of it and those who do so are selfish women who are choosing for themselves at the expense of their children. (All this choosing going on, huh, it's not as if violent men ever target vulnerable, previously abused women and mess with their heads until they lose sight of their free will or anything.)

I just don't get how social services can have enough evidence of a child being in danger to actually remove them, but somehow that evidence is not enough to remove the man who is actually doing the bad things???

Offred there is a huge swathe of degree in domestic abuse from the less severe end of the spectrum through financial abuse through coercive control to aggression to beating to wife murder it's on a spectrum like anything.

I didn’t know her when she was being beaten by her DC father, because she wasn’t allowed any friends. I couldn’t have helped her then.

Obviously if you have a friend like that no she can't but I suspect that you could so why not do so.

So you're talking about a child not a wife victim

Obviously there is a spectrum but you can’t ignore that most people involved in administrating these systems have variable understanding regarding what constitutes abuse.

The attitude of ‘he doesn’t hit you though’ is still very prevalent.

No, she’s 38. Her reading level is below my 8 year old’s.

If that is the situation then obviously that's a different kettle of fish and needs reporting to SS no forms to it.

Who reports things to SS when someone is not allowed any friends?

What do SS do in those situations? Do you think they help people like my friend improve their literacy? Help her apply for court orders? Give support?

She left him on her own and then they told her not to allow him access after she reported to the police and they were informed as a result.

Years down the line after many assaults on many different women (including off duty policewomen in the pub) he has never spent more than 6 weeks in jail, she was granted orders by the court in her assault case which he has broken many times and never been punished for despite her reporting it to police and she has been ordered by the court to allow him unsupervised access many times only to recently be told she has failed her DC by doing so.

You do: you are her friend.

Do you realise that many police officers still come to calls and spend time dissuading women from pressing charges? That still many times there is not enough evidence to act on the laws that exist because it is ‘he said she said’?

Well if she's already left him that's different is this an imaginary friend as her circumstances keep changing!

Yes, as I said. I am her friend now. 5 years later. When this relationship was happening she wasn’t allowed any friends and was living in a caravan on farmland.

No, I’m asking you how it applies to her when it would have been relevant I.e. when it was happening.

It’s not much use to women who are in the situation to say ‘in 5 years when you have friends get one of them to help you fill in forms now’

Anyway I'm off now but back tomorrow if you're around. Interesting discussion which I sincerely hope will have helped at least someone consider their options.

Ah I see. Well how did she leave him in the end then. Hope to findo out tomorrow. Nightx

She called the police. As I said and because she had evidence in the form of physical injuries he was prosecuted for assault.

He still stalks her though, her broke her windows a few months ago and she had to move and was charged by the HA for the damage. She now needs to move again because he has found her and the HA won’t house her because of the debt re the broken windows.

The police are not interested because no-one saw him do it.

Offred

Fucks me off that poor women with few resources really do come at the bottom of the pile.

The whole point with these men is they isolate then they begin the process of getting the woman so compliant she believes it is her fault and she is why he hits her. If she didn't do this, do that, say this, do that on time and so on. These women are often so beaten down they have no idea which way is up. They do truly believe they are to blame.

By cutting them off from family and friends or any other form of support, the man exercises maximum control with no come back. She is totally at his mercy.

Many of these women have no phones, no access to the outside world to get help. Financial abuse is a given in these circumstances and even being able to put away a couple of pound is an almost impossible feat. He will control absolutely everything down to the last penny - he doesn't want her to escape, this is his ideal, why change what has taken years to build. He will protect what he has created.

These men are unhinged monsters.

That’s my point really. If things are going to be offered as ‘the solution’ then they a. Need to be effective and b. Need to be available to all.

If you need to have a certain level of privilege to access the solution whether that be education, money, social relationships etc then these things are not actually solutions...

I think that very often people who trust ‘the system’ do so because ‘the system’ in their experience has been effective. They can’t imagine that the system fails people and they tend to be suspicious of others who say it does.

The system fails women.
Pp have spoke about women who refuse to presses charges. Maybe if they were sure their abusers would go to prison they would. But because he probably wont they cant take the risk that he will walk out the place station and come back and kill her straight away.
When i was 14 i was in a relationship with an 18 year old. He was abusive. One day he decided to kill me. He beat me then held me in the road for a car to hit us. I managed to get away. He was charged with assult and ordered to pay me 50 fucking pound. I thought he would be gone. He didnt spend a day in prison.

Why would these women presses charges when they are treated by the system like they dont matter.

Yes, and now due to changes to the police bail system combined with police cuts offenders may not even be arrested and if they are then they are often bailed without conditions.

Investigations are taking longer too. There are more mistakes by police and the CPS.

Social care can’t cope.

Women are in their own TBH.

I don’t think people realise.

Housing has been privatised and even where it is handed over to not for profits and the third sector the system has become harsher.

What LangCleg said.